this post was submitted on 14 Nov 2024
141 points (91.7% liked)

World News

39096 readers
2602 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Summary

Rafael Grossi, head of the IAEA, called Germany's decision to fully phase out nuclear power "illogical," noting it is the only country to have done so.

Despite the completed phase-out in 2023, there is renewed debate in Germany about reviving nuclear energy due to its low greenhouse gas emissions.

Speaking at COP29, Grossi described reconsidering nuclear as a "rational" choice, especially given global interest in nuclear for emissions reduction.

Germany’s phase-out, driven by environmental concerns and past nuclear disasters, has been criticized for increasing reliance on Russian gas and missing carbon reduction opportunities.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] ValiantDust@feddit.org 40 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

I deeply wish that people would understand that this horse is deader than dead. There is no Frankensteinian experiment and no virus that will bring it back to even a zombie-like half-life. So would you, please, please, just stop beating the poor thing.

It doesn't matter anymore how it died, it's really time to get a new horse.

Edit: Instead of just down voting, could you explain to me:

  • How should we get nuclear plants running in any time frame relevant to our current problems?
  • Who is going to pay the billions of Euros to build new nuclear power plants? The energy companies are not interested.
  • Where we should keep the waste, since we have not yet found a place for the decades' worth of nuclear waste we already have.
  • How this is making us independent of Russia, our former main source of Uranium

I just fail to see any way how this could right now solve our problem.

[–] tb_@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (2 children)
  • Where we should keep the waste, since we have not yet found a place for the decades' worth of nuclear waste we already have.

Pumping all of our waste into the atmosphere is a much better solution!

How should we get nuclear plants running in any time frame relevant to our current problems?

If we had started building them the first time that question was asked we'd have them by now.

[–] ValiantDust@feddit.org 16 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Pumping all of our waste into the atmosphere is a much better solution!

I never said that. But there are ways we have to do neither. Why not concentrate on those, especially since they are magnitudes cheaper.

If we had started building them the first time that question was asked we'd have them by now.

That might be true, but how is that helping us right now? That's why I said it doesn't matter how the horse died. It's dead now. There are many faster solutions, why take the one that takes longest?

[–] tb_@lemmy.world -2 points 1 week ago (2 children)

It's dead now

But what if it turns out we do need it in 10 years?

All renewable everything is cool, but that's also going to require a lot of storage for the days where it isn't so windy or sunny. I think having nuclear to cover (some of) the base load on the grid will be very helpful.

[–] leisesprecher@feddit.org 17 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And I think, you have absolutely no idea how incredibly expensive nuclear power is.

Solar power is literally free during the day in Germany right now. Investing a few hundred million in storage is much much much cheaper and easier to scale than building a nuclear power plant that will only start producing energy in 20 years or so.

[–] tb_@lemmy.world -5 points 1 week ago (2 children)

And I think, you have absolutely no idea how incredibly expensive nuclear power is.

Less expensive than whatever the fuck we've been doing with our climate these last 100 years. But those aren't direct costs, so who the hell cares.

[–] derGottesknecht@feddit.org 12 points 1 week ago

But still more expensive than renewables + storage, so what's your point?

[–] leisesprecher@feddit.org 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

And that refutes what argument?

[–] tb_@lemmy.world -3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

The costs of climate change are costs the people and our governments have to bear; just look at the billions in damage done by the recent hurricanes.

Those costs are a subsidy to the "cheap" fossil fuels we've been using. In fact, fossil fuels receive a ton of subsidies upfront too. Nuclear can be subsidised too.

I don't have faith our governments will switch to 100% renewable, and any fossil fuel is too much fossil fuel given how far we have already gone. We need to actively start scrubbing CO2 out of the atmosphere, and we're going to need as much power as we can generate for that.

Nuclear is expensive because it's relatively rare. Economies of scale don't apply to it as is. If we start building, it will become cheaper. Not cheap, perhaps, but cheaper. And it's a cost worth paying. We are already paying the price for the "cheap" fossil fuels.

[–] derGottesknecht@feddit.org 4 points 1 week ago

I don't have faith our governments will switch to 100% renewable,

But you have faith they will be responsible for a nuclear power plant and won't allow any shortcuts in maintenance and keep it safe?

We need to actively start scrubbing CO2 out of the atmosphere, and we're going to need as much power as we can generate for that.

Technical scrubbing is way to inefficient. It is powers of magnitude more efficient to invest in plants which build up the humus layer of fields, you can store way more CO2 that way.

Nuclear is expensive because it's relatively rare. Economies of scale don't apply to it as is. If we start building, it will become cheaper. Not cheap, perhaps, but cheaper. And it's a cost worth paying. We are already paying the price for the "cheap" fossil fuels.

But if we spend the same amount of money for renewables+storage we get more power per dollar.

[–] ValiantDust@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

But what if it turns out we do need it in 10 years?

That's the point, we likely wouldn't have any new nuclear power plants in ten years, even if we started planning them now. The one they are building in the UK was started somewhere around 2017 I think and maybe, fingers crossed, it might be finished by 2029. Right now the estimated cost is around £46 billion, up from originally about £23 billion.

That's one plant. We need many more for any relevant effect. Not even starting on the fact that nuclear energy is very inadequate for balancing out short term differences in the grid since you can't just quickly power them up or down as needed.

[–] nublug@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

why do nuclear diehards always pretend it's nuclear or fossil fuels only, like renewables are nonexistant? it smells bad faith as fuck. nobody arguing against nuclear fission power plants are arguing for fossil fuels. absolutely nobody.

[–] remon@ani.social 3 points 1 week ago (1 children)

FSS I hate discussions with people… You can do more than one thing. You could have concentrated on both nuclear AND renewables and stopped burning COAL - but no, instead Germany had a fucking uptick in coal power while dropping the much cleaner nuclear.

Relevant comment from this thread.

[–] derGottesknecht@feddit.org 11 points 1 week ago (1 children)

But still false, because we had a short, small uptick while switching away from russian gas. Now Germany burns less coal than ever in the last 50 years.

https://www.ise.fraunhofer.de/de/presse-und-medien/presseinformationen/2024/oeffentliche-stromerzeugung-2023-erneuerbare-energien-decken-erstmals-grossteil-des-stromverbrauchs.html

[–] remon@ani.social 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

The point is his claims "why do nuclear diehards always pretend it’s nuclear or fossil fuels only, like renewables are nonexistant? " is compleltly bollocks in the first place. I've never seen any one pro nuclear arguing against renewables. That's the ideal combo.

And this could have been easilsy debunked by just scrolling a few comments down. Was just point out the blantent lack of good faith of the previous commenter.

[–] derGottesknecht@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago

why do nuclear diehards always pretend it’s nuclear or fossil fuels only, like renewables are nonexistant?

Is not the same as

pro nuclear arguing against renewables

They mostly don't argue against it (only sometimes on reddit) but they always ignore its existence and accuse everyone who is not a nuclear fanboy on wanting more CO2 emissions.