362
Trump win means ‘time has come’ to annex parts of West Bank, Israeli minister says
(www.washingtonpost.com)
this post was submitted on 11 Nov 2024
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ITT there's a lot of people unwilling to accept the Democrats didn't prove their case. They didn't convince the Arabs they would be any better for Palestinians. They didn't convince unions they would be any better for them. And they certainly didn't convince anyone leaning truly left to vote for them by seeking Republican endorsements.
Look, I think Harris did the best anyone could with the cards she got dealt. But blaming the voters has never been a winning strategy.
Why does the blame go for Harris for not convincing people when it was clear to anyone paying attention that Trump was going to be worse?
This sounds like how people talk after being obviously wrong and not being able to accept being wrong.
If there are two paths and once says "Doom" and the other says nothing, only a fool picks the marked path. Only a fool who cannot accept responsibility blames the unmarked path for not being clearly marked "NOT Doom"
When one person says they are going to do bad shit, it's not on the other side to convince you they wont also do bad shit. The person assuming the one not talking who to doing bad shit will do it away because reasons is the problem. There is no one to blame but themselves. They will be a tool until they seize their agency and make an informed decision.
Stop being a tool.
That's the thing though. In regards to Gaza both paths were marked "Doom". With regards to the left, courting actual Republicans clearly marked both paths "Conservative".
Your analogy depends on your point of view being everyone's point of view. This is a fundamental failing of the democrats this year. They again acted like they were the only obvious choice and nobody could possibly have a legitimate opinion otherwise.
If you ignore voters and let party elders call them Russian agents then it's not exactly rocket science that they aren't going to vote for you.
Fine one says "more doom" and the other says "less doom" and you picked more doom because it didn't quantified how much less.
The point is you picked more doom well. Blaming the signage being inadequate. The sign was clear to anyone that hadn't shoved their head up their own ass.
You're still not getting it. You can't have "just a little" genocide. There is no more or less doom. There is only doom.
You can definitely have a just a little genocide.
You're inability to comprehend this lead to more genocide. It doesn't matter if you can see it or accept it; reality doesn't need you to understand.
Okay. So you don't understand the word Genocide. Got it.
There were two paths. One path was the dems, who I'll be the first to admit, not doing a great job with Gaza. The other, was Trump, who is buddies with Israel's prime minister to a first name basis, moved the embassy to Jerusalem specifically in support for Israel over all others and has proven to have nothing but disdain for anyone else in the region.
I'm sure the people in Gaza hearing the guy who is actively excited about their deaths really appreciate those who didn't vote "showing the dems" to swap out people at least attempting peace talks.
And frankly not voting to prove a point is like fucking for virginity. All you do is tell the politicians that have an interest against you they don't have to worry about you, you won't vote against them either.
None of that makes sense. If the Dems are just greenlighting everything anyways, what's the point for someone who cares about Gaza?
If the Dems are taking victory laps on a failed economy, what's the point for a working class family?
If the Dems are actively courting the conservative family members of war criminals who lied to us to kill 4,000 Americans, what's the point for antiwar activists?
There is not two paths when the Democrats are acting like this.
Dems have been going for peace talks. Again, not great, but bout to find out what greenlighting everything really looks like.
Failed economy, inflation was across the world, the US came out of it better in this administration than the others. Dems were pushing to get money for first time homeowners to try to get houses, get minimum wage raised, and to dial back student loans. The Republican House had blocked every step of the way but the movement went. Instead we got the guy who is buddy buddy and wants to put in the place to deal with government spending the guy who's a union buster and wants to kill paid overtime.
The conservative family members. I got no answers, like holy shit the worst commendation you can get is from Dick Cheney.
But all of the above is put best "A vote is not a valentine, you're not professing your love for the candidate. It's a chess move for the world you want to live in." Whelp, the move made was to put us into checkmate. Hope you like the Republican ideals, because if MAGAs can be dug out of the other branches of government, if the US continues as it always has and the scales don't completely fail, we're still going to have an ultra-conservative Supreme Court for what is likely the rest of our lives.
Going for peace talks? They fully supported Netanyahu's every move. Biden said the word peace and sent bombs that are literally nicknamed block busters.
If the Republicans are blocking economic reform then that's the message, not one of victory and whining that people just don't get it. All the average person heard was how proud Biden was of the economy. Meanwhile the working class is drowning in an affordability crisis.
The chess moves must at least be moving in the correct direction. Or in the Bus analogy, you don't get on a bus to hell just because they're both going there.
Whelp, either way, got what you wanted, dems lost. Hope your high minded ideals on sitting aside helps us not be on the bus to hell, because you're still living here and the consequences aren't going to walk past you and yours with "Oh, you didn't vote? A'ight, you get to sit this thing out."
The people who didn't vote aren't dumb. They either don't believe they're in an impacted group, or don't believe the Democrats would be meaningfully better. It's really that simple.
I agree with everything you're saying except for this part. A lot of voters are very dumb (they mostly voted for Trump and he is planning tariffs that will tank the economy, including for them, for example). But, the Democrats also need to adapt to the voter base and the issues they care about. I think both things can be true lol.
That really depends on how we mean dumb. I just mean generally. But yes in the way that we're all dumb about things we don't educate ourselves on, voters are generally pretty dumb on politics. They vote mostly based on messaging and vibe. But they aren't dumb in the way that you could lie to them about how the economy is currently affecting their life. And Biden was either so detached from the common person he didn't understand the problem, or he tried to gaslight the public.
Fair. I think this graph of the personal savings rate the last 5 years explains everything. Both Biden and Harris were fighting an uphill battle against these numbers the whole time.
Notice how everyone's savings goes up during pandemic relief and then tanks as those benefits end and inflation continues to stay high?
And that's where I'm in constant disagreement. If this was a minor situation, I'd be probably more chill about it all, but the whole not thinking they're going to be in an impacted group is a thing because the groups that will not be impacted in this is so small.
Have coworker who just realized his being on his dad's insurance is because of ACA. Have a coworker who was complaining about price of soybeans because his family was in that, that was Trumps last trade war with China and he's wanting to start a bigger one. The Republicans wanting to deregulate most industries will affect internet, food, unions, etc.
The things people complain about the democrats not standing up to the republicans have actively opposed. Been a final line in the sand for the massive sweeping social changes the conservatives have wanted to do since Nixon and Reagan.
My arguments have never been "love the democrats", it was "we just tossed the foxes into the henhouse."
seriously, stop with this bullshit line.
if you can't vote against a Nazi, then you are a Nazi.
I'm sorry was Richard Spencer on the ballot? How far does this transitive property go? Is the entire family of the voter now Nazis too? After all they have to sit at the table with the person and we know what you all say about sitting at tables with Nazis.
This is a shit attempt at moral blackmail.
It's pretty simple.
1 + 1 = 2
If you didn't vote for a Nazi, you aren't a Nazi.
!A == !B
The question is, did you vote for a Nazi?
Oh so now you have to affirmatively vote for a Nazi. Well good news, Trump isn't a Nazi, or a Neo Nazi. There are other flavors of shitty politics.
He is a Nazi. Blonde-haired blue-eyed Nazi.
His political campaign is built upon Hitler's rise to power. Not a 1:1, that'd just be fucking weird and obvious.
I'm not gonna argue semantics here with you. If you didn't vote against a Nazi, you are a Nazi.
If you don't speak out against Nazis, you're a fucking Nazi.
Fuck Nazis.
See? That's easy. How about you try?
Oh I don't like Nazis either. But his political campaign isn't built on Hitler's. It's a pretty stock modern campaign that had better messaging than the Democrats. And before you accuse me of liking his messaging, he won the election. So it was better messaging.
Calling everyone who doesn't vote for the Democrats a Nazi just isn't a winning message. That may seem weird to you but all everyone else hears is that you don't know what a Nazi is, and you're just throwing a word around.
Especially this new transitive power of being a Nazi by doing nothing. Even in the aftermath of World War 2 you weren't considered a Nazi without a party number. By the time you're done accusing people of being Nazis by the transitive power, everyone, yourself included, will be a Nazi. After all, you might accidentally sit at a table with one and then poof, you magically get an evil fashion sense.
fixed it. The fact that you're calling it "messaging", tells me all I need to know about you.
I'm not calling anyone who didn't vote for Democrat a Nazi. I'm calling anyone who didn't perceive Trump as a fascist threat, and voted against the obvious choice, a Nazi. Either you understood the threat that Donald Trump poses to continuing American life as we know it, or you actively supported him being in power. There will no other options but Harris and Trump. There's no gray area. It's pretty black and white. You either vote against the fascist, or you support the fascist.
Technically German citizens didn't do anything for the rise of power of Hitler. People still make jokes about how Germans are Nazis. 99% of the population there wasn't even alive for World War II. The shame was immeasurable and impacted Germany economically and psychologically as a culture. Why would there be shame if they weren't ashamed of what they did? And if they were ashamed, that means they're guilty. Guilty of what? Being a Nazi.
I wonder how the prisoners in the concentration camps after World War II felt when they went back home and their neighbors knew where they were and still they did nothing. Do you think that they... understood their neighbors weren't Nazis? Do you think they cared? I don't.
One does not "accidentally sit at a table of Nazis". When you find out the table is Nazis, you fuck up the table.
Whenever I find out somebody's a Nazi, I punch them in the face as hard as I possibly can. There's no delay. There's no guilt. Believe it or not, a fist straight to the face. Today, I'm proud to say, my daily life is 100% Nazi-free. I'm not sure how much longer I can keep this winning streak up though. You may willingly sit at a table with Nazis out of a sense of politeness, but I will burn that motherfucker down.
So no, there's not a "transitive power" on Nazis. It's pretty cut and clear. You either are a Nazi, or you are not. Like if you voted against fascism, or not.
So now not only do we have to vote, we also have to guess which one is the correct one with no communication.
And you say there's not a transitive power here but you keep describing a transitive power. Oh and you've called for violence against people who just want to be left alone.
You're really racking up the motivations for voting.
If you have to guess which one is the bad one...
No, I'm calling for violence against Nazis. Violence against actual Nazis is always acceptable.
I shouldn't have to motivate you to vote, nobody should. If you're not motivated to vote, then you accept the ramifications of your actions.
We'll come back in six months to see how you're feeling about it all. I'm feeling that you're probably gonna have a great time though.
How are we supposed to know? You said all messaging was propaganda. So we have two names on a page. That's it. And yes, people not voting are just trying to be left alone.
You're advocating for violence against people who just want to go to work, have a beer on Friday, and feed their kids.
unfortunately as an adult you don't get that luxury. if you want to be left alone, move to Uzbekistan and live in the mountains.
I'm advocating for violence against Nazis.
if they didn't vote, who will know unless they tell. and if they tell, then they clearly want to incite, because by your definition, they "just want to go to work, have a beer on Friday, and feed their kids". I don't think anyone who wants that would even care enough to mention they didn't vote, and in a few years they'll be too ashamed to bring it up anyway.
Oh so now we're on don't ask don't tell?
You're just hitting all the highlights aren't you?
And no. You don't get to tell people they have to leave their home. In your rush to fight a Nazi you're starting to really sound like one.