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I spent hours trying to persuade US voters to choose Harris not Trump. I know why she lost | Oliver Hall
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 09 Nov 2024
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politics
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That is a completely accurate depiction of what every member and supporter of the Democratic party has said, which has certainly been much more hurtful than Republicans' repeated threats to rape and kill us /s
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I don't see how you could possibly see his attacks on migrants, trans kids, etc. as anything other than punching down.
Also, why are you holding the Democratic party accountable for down voters here or other randos online who say stuff about Trump supporters? They're pretty distinct groups, and the fact is elected Dems bent over backwards to talk as nicely about Trump supporters as they could.
And I actually think that was a big part of what I think their real voter engagement problem was, which is that everything Dems say comes off like inauthentic over polished political bullshit to a lot of voters. I think simultaneously trying to say "Trump is an existential threat to democracy" and "Trump supporters are not garbage" sounds insane (like, if you're supporting an existential threat to democracy you just inarguably are a garbage human being, sorry not sorry).
I don't think we should make it a centerpiece of our message or waste a bunch of time on it, but if we get a direct question about Republican party supporters we have to respect our potential voters enough to say "Yes, they are garbage, roughly 35-40% of this country are bad people who are willing to hurt others to get what they want and that's why it's so important for the rest of us to put aside our difference and work together to stop them."
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It's definitely true that white collar, urban liberals sometimes punch down at rural, blue collar white people. It does hurt them politically.
I'm having trouble seeing anything Trump says about anyone other than high-level elected officials as punching up though. Attacks on the sitting president are punching up by definition, but the challenger always does that.
It seems more to me that he's telling people who don't feel good about their position in society that there's someone below them. That was the message of slavery, of apartheid, and of Hitler. I find it hard not to condemn those who were receptive to it.
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Not many, and those who come to mind weren't receptive to that kind of messaging. Reasoning I've heard includes "Biden ruined the economy", "vote R no matter who", and "RFK and Tulsi Gabbard endorsed him".
The statements I've heard from Trump himself are "illegal immigrants are going to steal your job, the election, and your cat", and "trans people want to fuck your kid", which are about groups of people with very little political power.
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I'm not going to cop to strawmanning here, but I will grant that people who are receptive to his messaging on immigration might hear it differently than I do.
Perhaps part of my difficulty understanding how someone could resonate with that messaging without being an irredeemable racist stems from it not being based in reality any time there are actual numbers available from law enforcement. Drug couriers are citizens far more often than they are immigrants. Illegal immigrants have a lower crime rate than citizens. Noncitizens attempting to vote is rare and usually results in prosecution. "Open border" means something very different to me, e.g. intra-EU borders than it seems to mean to Trump.
Despite all that, Trump's supporters feel like he's telling them the truth about these issues and everyone who contradicts him is lying. The explanations that come to mind for me are... uncharitable. I'd like to hear alternatives.
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I think the main thing I can take away from this is I'd be terrible at running a political campaign. I already knew that.
While I can understand how more traditional conservative messages resonate with people, Trump's are outside my Overton window. I can see the mechanics of how it works, and I can empathize with people who feel like the current system is failing them, but not with those who feel like Trump is going to fix it.
I'm disappointed your comments are attracting downvotes. They are on-topic and well-reasoned.
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What's funny is I'm not a part of the terminally online left. It would be hard to deny the terminally online part while posting on Lemmy, but I lean more libertarian than left. I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016. Now some reader here probably thinks I'm a terrible person.
Trump's 2016 election convinced me to compromise a lot and vote for team blue even if I had major differences of opinion of certain policies. His attempt to steal the 2020 election cemented that decision, as that's a long-term threat to the continued existence of democracy in America.
They voted for a rapist with a pack of white supremacists. They are irredeemable and they were never going to vote the other way. Thinking you can win them over is insane.
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Latino has nothing to do with it. They're humans, and a sizeable portion of humanity is just awful. Trump erases morality and makes them proud of their awfulness. You probably believe that all humans are intrinsically good but that's wishful thinking.
I haven’t heard of any republican threat to raise and kill everyone, but a lot are unhinged and I’m sure it happens. But it’s not a central platform of the Republicans, while being condescending of working class men is a central campaign point of the democrats, in fact it was so bad that black and Hispanic men showed up in record numbers to vote for Trump
I mean, no offense but the fact that you haven't heard this just might mean you're deep inside an echo chamber. It's hard to have an exact measure of these thing, but Republican threats and celebrations of violence and sexual assault are at least as central to their party's platform as being opposed to bigotry is to the Democrats party's from where I'm sitting.
And I'm not sure why you think being opposed to bigotry is an attack on working class men. Like, if we want to talk about the working class and poor people, let's talk about the fact that transgender people are more likely than the average American to be living in poverty because of the discrimination they fave.
I will say that's an easy to miss fact because society in general doesn't like to platform working class people because they're not as eloquent or pretty and the Dems tend to behave the same way, so we hear more about wealthy celebrity members of queer communities and other marginalized groups. At the end of the day, tho, if you do really care about the working class you need to care about transphobic discrimination (among all the other kinds of discrimination) too, because it is absolutely a tool the capitalist class wields to keep us divided and oppressed.