this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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Hamas’ brutal attacks in Israel on October 7 killed at least 1,400 people and the group took more than 200 hostages, according to Israeli authorities. In the wake of the assault, Israel launched an aerial bombardment of Gaza that Palestinian health officials say has killed more than 5,000 people. Israel also announced a “complete siege” on the enclave, withholding vital supplies of water, food and fuel.

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[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

As with any nation - yes, your citizens are less important than mine.

I won't comment on the checkpoint as I am not informed on the full story. I have however formally studied war crime in the general sense (not this specific example though).

Blockades are legitimate and commonly used in warfare - denying supplies are practical and it can be reasonably assumed they will find their way into the hands of the enemy. Saying that, it must be proportional and cause as little disruption to the civilian population as possible.

  • hamas has shown it will cross borders to kill and abduct civilians, and kill them at a later date (undisputed war crime there).

  • Hamas has shown they will claim aid destined for civilians

  • hamas has shown they will withhold supplies from it citizens

Therefore, it can be reasonably assumed that any supplies crossing the border will be used in direct action against Israel. If the aid was finding its way to civilians, was being utilized for humanitarian reasons and distinctly separately from armed forces supplies it could be argued that the blockade is now illegal. This would also apply if Hamas was no longer a threat.

Israel responsibility lies with its citizens first. Does it suck for civilians stuck in the middle - absolutely.

[–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

@HappycamperNZ

any supplies crossing the border will be used in direct action

It's not a food fight. Deliberate starvation is against international law..

I don't know what you "studied formally" but either you misunderstood what it means to consider the effects on the civilian population, or the person teaching you was some kind of monster.

[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Reading your link - deliberate starvation of civilians with intent to cause civilian harm or death, or eliminate a part of the population is indeed a war crime.

Also quoted from your link - a blockade is only intended to remove resources from adversarial forces, impediment of humanitarian aid is incidental harm. They key difference here is intent, and with Hamas seizing aid crossing the border and not distributing it any reasonable person would agree that it is stopping supplies to opposing forces.

Does it suck for civilian population - absolutely. But its not a war crime. Personally I think a coalition of multiple countries needs to go in and remove hamas, get aid set up for the civilian population and then investigate crimes on both sides - but that's not going to happen.

[–] livus@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

@HappycamperNZ I think you have an eccentric interpretation of international law that is contrary to most expert opinion. Which is fortunate because starving civilian populations for any reason is a gruesome thing to do and is quite rightly illegal.

Starving the civilians in this context is widely seen as illegal. Here are some examples of legal consensus opinion I found from a quick google:

I accept that you will easily be able to point me to competing positions, largely from Israelis and Americans, but I think you should be aware that these are in the minority.

[–] knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the people living in Gaza don't belong to israel to which nation to they belong?

[–] probablyaCat@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Legally, none. If you mean for travel purposes (passport), then they can apply for that with the Palestinian authority. I haven't a clue what their tax system is, but they aren't being paid to Israel. Stateless people exist all over the world. And some people start in one nation, never move, and up in another. This isn't even a point of contention in the situation.

[–] snek@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

fuck genocidal zionist Israel.

[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Yeah, we know you came in here with an agenda and no intention of unbiased discussion.