World News
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News !news@lemmy.world
Politics !politics@lemmy.world
World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
view the rest of the comments
Dude, the point is that anarchist and libertarian are the same word, and capitalists stole one and smeared the other.
Lol no.
It's literally just history, and one of the founders of "anarcho-capitalism" has a direct quote in one of the most read "libertarian" books of all time bragging about how they stole the term from real libertarians, but feel free to be wrong about this one thing, it won't hurt anything but your own understanding.
Feel free to tell me which book it is. I'm open to the idea, just not someone asserting it's so without good sources.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/3194162-one-gratifying-aspect-of-our-rise-to-some-prominence-is
The full quote there is kind of taken out of context. I just went ahead and skimmed the first couple hundred pages of his book since they're available for free on Google Books.
Here is the full quote (any errors mine since I'm transcribing) -
Rothbard, pg 83
So he's making a couple claims here. First he claims that liberal was originally a free market word. That is demonstrably false. Liberal is a very wide political theory, not an economic theory. It did include a free-er market than 18th century conservatism, but Adam Smith himself was not a proponent of Laissez-Faire as it's promoted today. He was in favor of less regulations in comparison to Mercantilism, where the government tightly controlled the economy and picked winners by handing out monopolies and forming corporations. (Again, not the corporations you're familiar with today) The main thrust of Classical liberalism was very simple, that people have a set of inalienable rights that cannot be guaranteed by divine right monarchy. Thus they should be allowed to rule themselves, preferably by representative government. One of those rights was the right to property according to some theorists such as Locke. However another point of agreement was the Harm Principle, so while they may have agreed on your right to property, where those rights end is a matter of debate to this day. Basically you cannot hold your rights so sovereign they trample the rights of others. So Rothbard's assertion that "Liberal" was originally associated with free market ideology, as he was writing this around 1970, is false. By then free market ideology had been taken to an extreme by the Austrian School of economists. (That was around the mid 1800's so before he was even born.) Liberalism was always pro-state, the guys who wrote the Constitution were famously liberals.
His second point is very interesting to me and it goes to what you're saying. He claims "Libertarian" had, "long been simply a polite word for left wing anarchists..." But elsewhere in his book he went to great lengths to redefine communist movements in Mexico and other places as Libertarian. He gives no solid references to support this either.
Rothbard, pg 187
In 1970, and the 20 years before, the various communist movements were almost all reactionary to colonial states. So yes, they literally wanted their land back. That in no way means they wanted to administrate their land in a libertarian fashion. If you cross reference a list of communist parties and dates of independence you'll find that the majority of communist movements come from former Soviet states, China, and countries that gained independence from about 1960-1980. To say nothing of his general assertion towards what we would call, "the working class." In this light I don't think this is a good source for the claim that Libertarianism was a leftist ideology first. He's clearly writing from a perspective meant to convert people, not convey objective truth.
The third point, that they're more entitled to the word is just ridiculous. but they certainly have it now.
All of that said, I haven't been idle and I have been toodling around the internet looking for this stuff because politics is very much what I do. This has been a fun day for me. I found a couple links that might interest you, libcom.org and Libertarian Marxism. So first off they both admit that Libertarian was not just some other way of saying anarchist. The writers of the late 1800's and early 1900's don't mention it from what I can find. What has happened is that in the 1930's to 1950's a bunch of Socialists and Communists were looking back at the prominent anti-bolshevik and anti-beauracracy communists; and they wanted a way to refer to that side of Communism with one word. Because as libcom puts it, "We are also influenced by certain specific theoretical and practical traditions, such as anarchist-communism, anarcho-syndicalism, Autonomist Marxism, black liberation, council communism, feminism, ultra-left Marxism, and others." Which is quite a mouth full.
Where I think the confusion has happened is you think this happened a bit earlier than it did and right wing Libertarianism happened later than it did, but it also was forming in that time period. In the US, Libertarianism as it's popularly known was originally a reaction to the Great Depression and then the New Deal. So almost exactly the same time period, which explains why Rothbard would say they stole the word from their enemies. They were in direct competition for it. As for my stance on all Libertarians being ultra capitalists or useful idiots, I'll have to read more of what libcom wants before I can say they specifically fall into that hole. Right now it does seem they want practical answers, not some magic eraser that makes government regulations and laws disappear. But some of their root influences definitely fall into that problem, anarchy cannot defend itself from statists without forming a state itself.
You are entirely too invested in not being wrong about a historical fact of etymology. You can just say "okay fair enough."
Oh etymology has very little to do with political philosophy. And the problem is I actually like this stuff. So I will go deep on it. Although I do usually work more within Liberal ideology and Authoritarian practicality. But looking at some socialist stuff was like picking up a new toy for me.