this post was submitted on 02 Sep 2023
58 points (80.2% liked)

Memes

46041 readers
1333 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
58
Defediverse (lemmy.ml)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by w00t@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
 

EDIT: no, I don't sympathize with nazis (neither I sympathize with those who call everyone nazi when they're losing an argument ;)

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] shiveyarbles@beehaw.org 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Fascists and child porn spammers may have rights somewhere, but not in my world.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

True but.

It reminds me of this discussion I had on Reddit with a person who said it was okay to punch a Nazi, just like that. Walk up to them l, punch.

I start with that Nazi's don't really exist, and if someone has intolerant ideas them maybe it's better to talk them out of those ideas instead of reinforcing them.

This discussion took a few messages until it ended with this person calling me a Nazi and threateni to punch me if he ever saw me, just and only because o disagreed with unjustified violence against intolerant people

This person was just as intolerant as a Nazi themselves and didn't even realize it.

[–] Muehe@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 year ago

This person was just as intolerant as a Nazi themselves and didn’t even realize it.

No they weren't, this is what Popper defines as intolerance of the second degree. Taken from the German wiki page because this aspect is better explained there than in the English version (translated with deepl):

In intolerant people, Popper distinguished two categories:

  1. intolerance of the first degree: intolerant of a person's customs because they are foreign.

  2. intolerance of the second degree: intolerant of a person's customs because they are intolerant and dangerous.

Popper therefore rejected universal tolerance:

"Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: unrestricted tolerance leads with necessity to the disappearance of tolerance. For if we extend unrestricted tolerance even to the intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant social order against the onslaughts of intolerance, then the tolerant will be destroyed and tolerance with them."

However, since we as human beings are not capable of knowing the true motives of our counterparts, a fundamental, unsolvable problem now arises: It is difficult for an outsider to distinguish whether a person who expresses intolerance belongs to the first or second degree.

In other words the intolerance against Nazis is justified because they are the ones being intolerant in the first place, and sometimes this is the only way to fight them on that.

I'll grant that this is disregarding your premise of Nazis not existing, but to be quite honest if I may, that's a pretty stupid premise. The Nazis did exist, they were the poster child for intolerance of the first degree, and their ideology is far from being as dead as they are.

[–] mrpants@midwest.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You ever convert a Nazi with words? You certainly haven't convinced me that a Nazi puncher and a Nazi are the same.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca -1 points 1 year ago

Nazi's don't exist. They haven't existed for about 80 years now. What do exist are people with varying degrees of being a racist cunt.

Yu can either piss them off and push them deeper or talk with them and pull them out. Even if you only pull them up a little, it's an improvement

These people are still going to be here. You punch them, what does it solve? Tomorrow he or she is still out there, probably even more angry and convinced they're right.

I know that reasoning is much, much harder to do but it's also much more rewarding.

Also, just don't be a dick. If you punch someone simply for saying that he likes what Nazi's did you're literally the wrong one. He's using stupid words, you're being violent. Any judge will throw your ass in jail, not the wannabe Nazi, and he'd be right.

Again, we still need to love with these people. They're still in your streets, in our stores, in our bars, in our schools. Do you want to push them further and further until they break, or do you want them to understand and learn and get better?