this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2023
144 points (96.2% liked)
World News
32348 readers
413 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
While I'm openly in favor of supporting Ukraine, it's important to note that the vast majority of this type of military aid is provided in kind.
So really, it's a proposal to give US Defense contractors $100b+ to replenish and restock the DOD with new kit and munitions for the old kit and munitions that we're providing to Ukraine. Which then get into the use accounting tricks e.g. depreciation values, etc.
The annual military aid to Israel is a little different, it's more like a loss leader coupon: give Israel money that they have to spend with US Defense contractors, which then also incentivizes them spending their own budget on complementary systems that can be integrated with those systems, munitions, support contracts, etc.
Although in this case, I believe it's primarily munitions and other kit that the DOD already has in warehouses.
This is oversimplified, but I just see these headline figures always being confused for pallets of cash.
I don’t live in Ukraine. I need healthcare now. Let Blackrock and Vanguard fund Ukraine.
Did you have healthcare before Russia invaded Ukraine and started murdering babies? Was it even on the cards?
It's not an economic factor either. US health costs are much higher than other developed nations. It spends 17% of GDP, almost double of Germany (next highest).
Spending is without the positive outcomes. Infant mortality of 5.4 deaths per 1,000 live births (17,000 extra dead babies a year Vs an average.rate), for context you are worse than Russia with 4.9 but better tha Chile 5.9). 23.8 maternal deaths per 100,000 births being 3 times higher than most wealthy nations.
The economic considerations are that you have a lot of heath businesses. If you socialised medicine and reduced spend, you may improve health outcomes but how would they pay for the very nice buildings they have loans for?
Finally, US doesn't want universal healthcare as a society. Whilst they may be financially wrecked by costs and live shorter more painful lives, that is far preferential than seeing the low income family get the same free cancer treatment for their child.
Nice rhetoric. I’ve wanted healthcare since 2009, when the “Yes we can” guy didn’t. Your talking points have been disproven and Americans polled overwhelmingly want nationalized healthcare. Source. You provided no source because you pulled it out of your actuarial ass.
Yes, I did until they sent me a letter informing me that they were booting me off my Medicare for All plan and converting it into artillery shells for the Kherson offensive.
Thanks for your service. /s
We aren't getting it eitherway, so in the meantime, at least some of our weapons are being used to defend against an imperial power, instead of to advance one.
You think the US isn't funding Ukraine to advance its own imperial interests?
You truly think we're just doing it because we just love "democracy" so much, or something like that?
Buddy, an imperial power is winning either way.
I don’t think the next generation is going to accept that excuse, nor should they. Enlightened Centrism is what got us to this point.
Yes, the correct nuanced take is pallets of cash to arms dealers and pallets of weapons to allies and puppets.
How about Palestine?
If the Palestinians had received a quarter of what Ukraine has received in the last three years Israel would be no more. I certainly don't have a problem with that.
Do I support giving arms to Israel? No, but that wasn't the point of my post. It was an very high level explainer to head off the inevitable portrayal of this as a direct cash transfer.
Did you you seriously just describe your own comment as "very high level"?
Did you really confuse that for meaning "expert" and not "incredibly basic and way oversimplified"?
Obviously?
Sweet! So it'll help the rich get richer and won't help any of us who don't work on the defense industry. Love it!
I'd try to explain the geostrategic and humanitarian benefits to helping one of the world's largest bread baskets defend against imperial conquest by an mafia run gas station, or do a deeper dive into Putin's desire to reconquer the old USSR satellite states, or the associated risks if he was successful, but I don't think you really care to have you opinion shaped by analysis and the realities of great power poltics, so I'ma leave you be.
I fully support giving aid to Ukraine. Just not so sure about funding the destruction of Palestine by a country with one of the world's strongest economies
I never said I supported funding Israel's military, I don't. I just added that mini explainer because it's a different method of military aid than we provide Ukraine, and the proposal is bundled together.
Sorry, this is on me - I should have been more clear in my first reply. I just think it's fucked up that we're spending all this money to support genocide when "we couldn't afford" to spend on US citizens. Defense contractors make a shit ton of money from war and the rest of us won't have anything to show for it. Again, speaking strictly about the middle east. Russia is a significant threat to the world so I'm fine with my tax dollars are going toward stopping their bullshit.