this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
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[–] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (4 children)

democracy enjoyers when people vote for parties that best represent their interests: 😡😡😡😡😡😡

[–] skeezix@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago (2 children)

One might argue that a two-party system (with the electoral college the way it is) is not a democracy

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I would argue that. FPTP, you either vote tactically or the vote doesn't count towards the final results. That's not real democracy to me.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml -2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

your not voting tactically because your vote counts equally as much either way. There's nothing "tactical" about voting for people who push policies one doesn't support.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes, there is, the other option will advance the nation faster into full theocratic fascism. If you cannot tell one of the two viable options is less awful you need to get a clue.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

No there isn't. An advocacy for a lesser evil still implies evil. You need to get an education.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You're deliberately ignoring the reality of FPTP voting and saying other people are uneducated. Again, please get a clue.

[–] NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Your deliberately ignoring the amount of impact your single vote has. Again, please get an education.

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Of the two of us, I am the only one making a decision that would cause my vote to make an impact. You are extremely ignorant of the world and of very basic game theory. A lemmy.ml instance account, of course.

[–] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

the system devised by wealthy landowners to keep power out of the hands of common people isn't actually a democracy? I'm shocked. Shocked, I say!

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 4 points 2 months ago (1 children)

So you admit the average voter needs to accept they aren't in a functional democracy and do damage control until the revolution, cool.

[–] Donebrach@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

And the best way to affect change is to throw a vote at a losing candidate and not, say, elect local candidates who can actually affect political and legal change in the nation. No, just gotta add to the literal hundreds of Stein supporters in making it heard that they vaguely dislike american democracy but are totally fine with the entire system collapsing into fascism because, uh… dont sell gun abroad (or something)

[–] Cyteseer@lemmy.world 13 points 2 months ago (1 children)

What interests does Jill Stein actually represent for the people? The green party has never held a local office and she only ever pops up during the election for fundraising. If the green party actually did anything aside from campaigning for the presidency, no one would have this criticism.

[–] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

off the top of my head, she's the only one calling for a full arms embargo of Israel, and also the only one pushing for medicare for all. she has also consistently criticized trump and biden's immigration policies. all of this aligns with my interests, and so she is who I will most likely vote for.

The green party has never held a local office

this is wrong. As of the November 7, 2023 elections, at least 142 Greens hold elected office. I found this with 2 seconds of googling.

[–] buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

As of 2023, no nominee of the Green Party has been elected to office in the federal government.

Yeah, they're real committed. 23 years and they haven't even gotten a single congressman elected.

142 local elected officials out of literally tens of thousands across the country. But Jill Stein manages to pop up every 4 years to run for president. She becomes especially loud in the years when the elections look relatively close. And, like her predecessor Ralph Nader, she's got environmental ideas (most of which have been adopted by the Democratic party) but the only other thoughts on policy are criticism of the Democrats with no actual agendas or ideas for fixing things as president. She says "stop selling arms to Israel!". Ok, sure. How does the democratic presidential candidate say they are gonna do that without pissing of AIPAC and having them throw every dime at their disposal to get Trump elected instead? Hell, she doesn't even engage with Republicans. Just democrats for some reason. I wonder why that is... Oh, yeah. Cause she's there to spoil the election. That is her only purpose. Saying anything else is disingenuous.

[–] brianary@startrek.website 0 points 2 months ago (1 children)

If intent matters and results don't, I'll write in my favorite fictional candidate!

[–] barsquid@lemmy.world 3 points 2 months ago (1 children)

That's correct. Intent is the only thing that matters, not results. Fun fact: your fictional candidate will get the same number of EC votes as Stein.

[–] brianary@startrek.website 2 points 2 months ago

I'm just shocked at the vanity of people aggressively voting third party. They value the purity of their voting record more than other people's lives. They think they're the first generation to figure out morality or the secret cheat code to change the system.

[–] RubicTopaz@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

No you don't understand you have to vote the genocidal capitalist pig

[–] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

FPTP systems can hardly be called democracy. Like it or not, the spoiler effect is the problem here.