The solution for Earth isn't going to be some pie-in-the-sky terraforming (which, I'd like to note, means "to make Earth-like") project, but changing our psychotic economic system that depends on infinite growth and consistently elevates the worst of us into positions of power.

That's why I think we'll never manage to unfuck ourselves. There's just way too much power invested in keeping things the way they are

[–] Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Does that mean you're for or against teroforming Mars?

[–] dactylotheca@suppo.fi 11 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I have nothing against the idea of terraforming Mars, I just don't think terraforming is going to save us from ourselves.

Like I said I just don't believe we'll ever get to that point – because we'll fuck things up on the only currently livable planet so badly that I doubt mass-scale industrial society will survive long enough for terraforming Mars to become relevant.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If things ever work out on mars, it will be because its a hyper isolated, filtered microsociety that has nothing to do with "humanity" as we know it.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Right, because “humanity” has nothing to do with hyper isolated, filtered microsocieties.

[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 3 months ago

Well they are trying it here too of course, but obviously it will be easier when there is lots of empty space between you and the people that want to disturb your isolation. Humans be humans after all.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee -2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Two things:

Who says capitalism depends on infinite growth? I often hear that criticism, but I don’t see where it’s coming from? I’ve not heard a capitalist say this, only anti-capitalists. What is it about capitalism that requires this growth?
Can you name anything, anywhere, which exists without growing? Doesn’t even have to be alive, just asking for any phenomenon that just exists without growing.

So I guess it’s one point expressed two ways: “Requiring constant growth” is not a valid criticism of our current economic system.

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The modern take on stock investment is to not give dividends, so the only way for shareholders to make money is to have the company grow indefinitely.

Obviously a capitalist won't tell you that. My economy professor kept insisting that efficiency is always positive because it only concerns making a bigger cake, so there is more cake to be divided among the people involved, which he called surplus. In reality greater efficiency has a cost, and the cost is paid by people, while other people pockets the surplus. Fuck capitalists.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

So making money in the stock market only works if the pie keeps on expanding? I think that’s a way to take advantage of the fact that our economy is expanding, but I don’t think that’s the definition of capitalism.

[–] Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Your original point was that the pie doesn't need to keep expanding, so you have been disproved I would say. Saying that the economy need to keep expanding is the same as saying the economy is based on infinite growth. If it stops expanding the stocks are not profitable anymore and the shareholders are going to vote to replace CEOs, so the CEOs have an incentive to make he companies grow at any cost.

[–] intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You explained how one business relies on growth, in order to enrich its stockholders.

That is not the same as saying how the entire economy needs to expand.

Also it doesn’t differentiate it from anything else, since literally everything (I’m using the word phenomenon in its most literal form here — feel free to challenge me on any phenomenon) must grow or cease existing.

[–] 5wim@slrpnk.net 1 points 3 months ago

Have you taken a critical look at why you feel so compelled to defend capitalism? I'm honestly curious, because unless you're trolling for lols (which would also be sad), it's similar to excuses from a victim in an abusive relationship; you are a victim of capitalism and are apologizing for it.

Economists and politicians generally believe that we need to keep the global economy growing by around 3 percent annually

Why capitalism is obsessed with growth