this post was submitted on 10 Jun 2024
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I was considering voting for the pirate party, but they polled at less than 5% in France and it was not a useful vote, which was evidently needed.
I still voted for them, because I could.
And I'm sick of the useful vote thing, I did it last time in 2022 against Le Pen and all I got was a lousy President.
Better a lousy president than a fascist, hell, boring politicians is what we should aim for!
both macron and lepen are two corrupted fascists tricking you like a chicken into choosing a side and voting for them instead of "wasting your vote"
No she isn't? Macron is president until the next French presidential election in 2027.
Prolly their confusion is that Macron called for new elections, but unlike some parliamentary governments Macron isn’t selected by parliament.
Yes, I misunderstood how the system works in France.
Don't expect a Le Pencil supporter to understand reason.
I am not a supporter, I just find very stupid to postpone the inevitable while proposing… nothing better?
I mean yes, Macron was dumb on this one, but he isn't as dumb as that
Strategic voting is what you're stuck doing depending on your local electoral process.
She's going to become president in 2024, she could have become president in 2022 instead.
If a party won't fix the serious issue to let me also vote for who I want, they're not entitled to my vote.
You can deny the reality of the electoral system you're stuck with all you want, at the end of the day you're probably one of the people that will end up suffering the most because of it.
Voting for a party I don't want is also suffering, though I doubt you'd believe that. Keeping the main parties in power via a rigged system ain't ending this catch 22 cycle.
I don't know who's worse, the person making people suffer or the person who could have prevented it doing nothing out of principle?
Because that's exactly what people are doing by letting the right win by refusing to be strategic. Your opponent will 100% act strategically.
It is my hope that greater political diversity will prevent more suffering in the long run by governments better representing the people.
It's very comfortable to blame others if your political opponents get into power. If you don't have another suggestion I can at least leave you with the small comfort that this bad person won't vote for the main party you dislike the most out of spite.
Ok so let people suffer now to prevent suffering in the future?
How many people?
For how long in the future are we looking?
You think as an opponent to Le Pen you're not one of those who will suffer?
I'm starting to believe that the Russian trolls are now focusing on the French election.
Tu parles français au moins?
Lucky for you I'm not French. I just oppose tactical voting in favor of voting in someone who may have a chance of removing the need for tactical voting.
I don't know how long it will take and I don't know which paths actually leads to the least amount of suffered in the short term. I just know it needs to change.
Have fun dealing with your fascist government, I hope you'll remember these comments while you're being repressed.
Eh, I'd much rather vote for a party that aligns with my values but might not get a seat, in hopes it will inspire more people to do so next time around.
Vote your conscience while you can. I'm pretty much stuck voting for slightly left of center candidates (in the US) because the opposition is to the right of Kim Jong Un depending on the issue.
Yeah, the greens had a risk of not getting 5% so it was much more worthwhile to vote for them.
You should be able to vote for both.. 😮💨
There may be even better voting systems but 3-2-1 would be a nice change. This way strategic voting gets at least somewhat mitigated and might force people to actually invest some time and look at the agenda of some other parties too because they have to vote for 3 parties.
There are voting systems that completely prevent the need for tactical voting (e.g. instant-runoff voting, aka alternative vote) but if the system still trends towards having two main parties then not much has really changed.
A bigger issue is that a single candidate/party is not very good at representing an area in comparison to having more (3, 5, ideally more). If people vote 80% A and 20% B and A gets the single candidate then 20% are misrepresented. With 5 candidates then that could be split 4 to A and 1 to B, a perfect representation.
I would have voted for the Pirate Party if there was a ballot for them.
Didn't print it beforehand so I couldn't.
Last time I printed my own ballot they just didn't count it and my vote was considered invalid. Even though I had the exact size required by regulations...
Wait, am I missing something here? Are there countries where you don't have all options on the ballot, or at least an empty space?
Edit: Saw your explanation in another comment. Wouldn't having to bring your own ballot also invalidate voting secrecy, since bringing your own indicates that you most likely intent to vote for an unlisted party (and, in reverse, anyone using the regular ballot voting for a party that's listed)?
It affects secrecy a bit but you still have to take at least two different ballots into the voting booth. Obviously you are bringing your own ballot and taking one already printed so it's not really a secret.
Also there was taped garbage bags in the voting booth so that people can throw away their discarded ballots but that's also a great way to show what every else has been voting before me...
I still think our voting system is quite ok but there are definitely flaws.
Concerning your edit, not sure about other countries, but I can speak about the process in France.
We get (normally) ballots with the programs in the mail before the elections, so we can also bring ballots from there. Then the way it works when voting is
So there's not really a way to definitely know you're voting for an unlisted candidate here.
Same... I hate having to vote useful
You trust polls?
And I was right to; pirate party got less than 1% of votes, also due to the fact they couldn't afford to have their voting paper in most places.
Polls are problematic in that they reinforce their own predictions. It's especially frustrating in recent years when you're bombarded with them even when there's no election in sight. Problem is, governing parties are usually busy governing while populists are campaigning 24/7. Media has made a huge effort to reinforce the trend and get people used to living in a far right era. Polls are unhelpful and destort democracy to a dangerous degree.
Thanks for being part of the self-fulfilling prophecy, I guess.
Where do you live that you can print your own ballot?
France. The parties have to pay the government if they want their ballot already present at the election place. As a citizen, you may also bring any ballot you want (within some very reasonable rules), so the smaller parties instruct you to print your own to save on costs.
OMG. Here in Germany you sometimes get an entire booklet of ballot papers, if necessary. You wouldn't even be allowed to bring your own ballot. Otherwise, one could secretly mark their own ballot in some way, thereby undermining the secrecy of the vote.
Yeah, this is one of the seasons the Pirate party is pushing for a unique ballot, because the current format is really unfavorable towards small parties that don't have the means to print the ballots among other things