You Should Know
YSK - for all the things that can make your life easier!
The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:
Rules (interactive)
Rule 1- All posts must begin with YSK.
All posts must begin with YSK. If you're a Mastodon user, then include YSK after @youshouldknow. This is a community to share tips and tricks that will help you improve your life.
Rule 2- Your post body text must include the reason "Why" YSK:
**In your post's text body, you must include the reason "Why" YSK: It’s helpful for readability, and informs readers about the importance of the content. **
Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.
Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.
Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.
That's it.
Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.
Posts and comments which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.
Rule 6- Regarding non-YSK posts.
Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-YSK posts using the [META] tag on your post title.
Rule 7- You can't harass or disturb other members.
If you harass or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.
If you are a member, sympathizer or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.
For further explanation, clarification and feedback about this rule, you may follow this link.
Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.
Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.
Let everyone have their own content.
Rule 10- The majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.
Unless included in our Whitelist for Bots, your bot will not be allowed to participate in this community. To have your bot whitelisted, please contact the moderators for a short review.
Partnered Communities:
You can view our partnered communities list by following this link. To partner with our community and be included, you are free to message the moderators or comment on a pinned post.
Community Moderation
For inquiry on becoming a moderator of this community, you may comment on the pinned post of the time, or simply shoot a message to the current moderators.
Credits
Our icon(masterpiece) was made by @clen15!
view the rest of the comments
The economy of China is not characterized by the common/social ownership of the means of production, which means it is not socialist. No amount of five-year plans can change that.
China does spark international conflicts and does bully its neighbors, but it is true that the country doesn't cosplay world police and doesn't participate much in military operations outside the country, which is a big plus.
As per the bar, it shouldn't fall lower just because some country got even more evil. We can compare the evils, but the evil will be there.
With all that said, I do not say "China bad". But claiming "China good" would also not be correct.
I don't think people are saying that the PRC is economically Socialist, just that it has a Dictatorship of the Proletariat of some sort and appears to be more keen on keeping its bourgeoisie in check.
Coupled with their intent to challenge Western Imperialism (Lenin's definition), I believe this explains critical support among Marxists for the PRC, despite the many flaws.
Kinda like supporting Biden over Trump, not like supporting Bernie over Trump. You work with what's actually there, even if it isn't what you wished, and hope things change for the better.
That makes sense.
30% of their industry is SOEs. They have a 90% home ownership rate and one of the most generous pension systems left standing - affording Chinese workers the opportunity to retire inside their 50s. The local property laws force foreign companies to share equity with regional firms, keeping both profits and IP domestic.
And while the high point of the old-school Commune System is long passed, the household responsibility system still guarantees public ownership of arable land. If you work the land, you own the fruit of your labor. That's textbook Communism.
It goes beyond the negative. They've been a positive force for international relations, helping to buffer North and South Korea to prevent a new war, exporting $100B/year in agriculture products to curb global hunger, and pioneering industrial scale solar, wind, and nuclear technologies to mitigate climate change.
As a global diplomat, they've got cache that the Western states have squandered, making them a popular back channel in Middle Eastern politics.
And to quote Dr. Lubinda Haabazoka, Director at the University of Zambia's Graduate School of Business
I would say that alone illustrates why Chinese foreign policy deserves praise.
Textbook communism is an economy that is 100% worker-owned, with everyone's needs directly met without the intervention of money. The rest is not that, by literal definition. Let's not play into the hands of people who want to call that communism and ultra-left to exploit in their own needs.
China does have some strong policies, but it doesn't make it communist by any definition. Also, high home ownership rate is mostly a cultural phenomenon, with housing still seen as "best investment" despite the fact there are entire ghost towns full of houses that never ever filled.
I'm well aware that US pressures China militarily, and that China has a much more peaceful approach. However, Chinese ships regularly bully other countries in the South China Sea against international maritime laws.
The infrastructure China builds is not just a gift - but an investment on which China expects a return. I'm not convinced China is actively pursuing debt trap diplomacy, but it certainly uses economic power to pressure other countries into various concessions.
Utopian Communism is a stateless, moniless society that was hypothized by 19th century European theorists as a possible result of generations of revolutionary struggle.
But if you sit down and read the textbook, you'll discover even the most idealistic thinkers don't hold that it would happen overnight. Marx, himself, asserts a number of transitional states - industrial capitalism being one of them - necessary to reach surplus volumes capable of sustaining a post-money society.
The policies are the direct result of experimental application of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist socio-economic theory. They are explicitly and deliberately Communist, in the same way that American socio-economic policy is Capitalist.
The end goal of Chinese state policy is to advance to a state of publicly controlled superabundance. This is markedly different from the American policies intended to fashion fully privatized ownership of an artificially scare pool of goods and services.
A return in the form of improved economic and political relations. It is for the same reason you would bring a gift to a birthday party.
You're right on classics - but off topic.
I'm saying that China does not economically classify as a communist state, neither did even USSR, because it just wasn't feasible at the moment.
I'm combating the change of meaning where communism as officially proclaimed ideology is conflated with communism as an actual economic system. As a result of this, people start thinking that communism is when a state controls some sides of economy and gets involved in social programs, which is not a definition of communism, it's a capitalist state with social elements.
A state can even apply some of the Marxist-Leninist-Maoist principles, but it is economically capitalist as long as means of production are controlled by private entities looking for profit. This is not an argument about what China should or shouldn't do - this is an argument that China is not economically communist or even socialist, like it or not. Neither was USSR during the so-called New Economic Policy.
A return in form of cash or lease.
They do. Because they're pursuing communist economic policies.
Sure. If I'm Elon Musk and saying "By the way, I am actually a socialist. Just not the kind that shifts resources from most productive to least productive" then that's horseshit nonsense.
However, if I'm Luo Wen, the current director of the State Administration for Market Regulation, focused on breaking up monopolies and limiting the capacity of private business to consolidate control in a given industry, I'm both ideologically and actually committed to communist economic principles.
The Chinese state leadership gave up on trying to be direct owner-operators of capital during the Deng Era. However, it still strictly enforces a prohibition on foreign control of domestic capital as a legacy of its anti-colonial mission. The means of production remain property of the Chinese proletariat.
Define "communist economic policies".
If you're Luo Wen, you're in favor of state regulations of the capitalist market; you are not pursuing communist policies.
It's not enough to maintain domestic control of the capital - this is a feature of any protectionist regime, even a fascist one. You should also make sure this capital is entirely democratically controlled and owned by the workers - which is not what happens in China. The capital of Chinese businesses is not the "property of workers".
Strict prohibitions on foreign controlling interest in real estate, capital, and intellectual property, for starters.
State regulation for the purpose of limiting foreign ownership, foreign manipulation of domestic markets, and foreign monopoly of natural resources. This leads to:
All of these rules are intended to protect domestic markets and maintain local control of business capital.
It is the property of the Chinese People, as opposed to a cartel of foreign landlords. The surplus produced by Chinese business returns to the Chinese economy in the form of improvements to the socio-economic landscape. Chinese consumers enjoy an abundance of at-cost / below-cost social services, because they are not exposed to the rent-seeking behaviors of the predatory capitalist class. And Chinese business executives suffer the kind of regulatory surveillance and oversight that is largely neglected in Western democracies.
This guarantees that workers enjoy the surplus value of their labor. And that is the end goal of a Communist economy.
This is protectionism and it has literally nothing to do with communism. Those are two absolute different things that can coexist or not coexist.
Same relates to your other points.
Your rhetoric is eerily similar to protectionist points of Nazi Germany, a very non-communist state that was obsessed with domestic control and protecting domestic capitalist with the proclaimed idea of "capital belonging to all people of Germany", as opposed to "evil Jewish cartels".
Simply trapping the capital inside the country speaks little of what gets to the workers. And if we talk communism, ALL of the capital is directly owned by the collective of workers. Which is not China.
It's protection for domestic ownership of property.
It was similar to Communist protectionist points of the KDP.
You've been pumped full of bad info, and at this point I don't know what to tell you except to get outside whatever Western propaganda hot house you've found yourself in.
As I said, protectionism may coexist or not coexist with communism, as it can with any other economic system.
If you're serious about equating protectionism and communism, you should probably be happy with the way things were done in the Third Reich.
You should seriously reconsider the terms you employ, and read the classics more thoroughly. Also, open the goddamn Wikipedia if you're too lazy for that.
Only if you ignore the history of anti-colonialism that gave birth to communist movements in the third world.
That's utterly ahistorical. There was nothing protectionist about Nazi Germany.
No, I just state the fact that protectionism doesn't mean communism and globalism doesn't mean capitalism.
They are different terms for a reason.
There was everything protectionist about Nazi Germany, who seeked to give control of German industries to German capitalists.
Capitalism requires an economic frontier for continuous growth, which necessitates extraterritorial expansion. Communism requires home rule and self-sufficient domestic industry, which necessitates protectionism.
One describes a broad philosophy and the other describes a tool of policy. Might as well say Plumber and Pipe are different terms for a reason.
Communism does not necessitate self-sufficiency, moreover, a switch to fully domestic production is detrimental to any economy. The reason modern economy is globalized is that it's simply more efficient, and capitalist economies are all about efficiency, as it allows to extract more value. At the same time, many past socialist economies were forced to only partner with other socialist economies, which limited their options and hurt their economy.
One of the key reasons communist classics called for a global revolution is to gain the critical mass of communism-aligned countries to minimize this effect and maximize globalization efforts. The communist endgame is one interconnected world without any nations to begin with, not to mention any protectionism.
That's all, like, economics 101.
I don't think you've ever actually read the theory.
I don't think you did read Marx, Engels, and Lenin.
Can't say for Mao, did not read his works close enough.
But the communism classics would strongly disagree with you; besides, you stray so so far from the original topic.