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I may not agree with the devs political view, but I think their work developing lemmy is excellent and made me subscribe to monthly donation on opencollective. Lemmy is an open source project where the devs have absolutely no say over how the software being used, as evidenced by so many lemmy instances defederating from lemmygrad and lemmy.ml. Their political belief won't affect other instance.
Most instances are federated with Lemmy.ml, it's Hexbear and Grad that .world and a few others have defederated from, among the major instances.
It seems like they have some strong say when it comes to their own instance. According to some recent posts, ML admins (and maybe even mods?) have the ability to erase any record of mod actions, for example disappearing critique of the CCP's brutal actions in Tiananmen Square that were posted on ML. That left no record in the public mod logs, and the users were never informed that their contributions had been (completely) deleted.
I'm only a 1yr Lemming myself, but I never saw such a critique aimed at any other instance, hence why I'm skeptical that the devs don't have influence over how the software is used.
That isn't an example of them having a say over how people use the software. That's them using their own property as they wish.
It's more than just that IMO. It's breaking the stated aim of open federation by tampering with comments, posts and mod records, which in turn get propagated or de-propagated to connected instances, right?
Yes, you may say that ML is of course free to screw with their own instance, but 1) one instance (particular a significant one like ML) affects other instances, and 2) they're breaking the spirit of their own software by shamelessly abusing admin powers, in turn helping to normalize that behavior to the Lemmy side of the FV.
What's the point of leaving oppressive, commercial social media only to run in to the same kinds of abuse of power on a supposedly transparent, user-run, P2P social network?
I'm not convinced that this is in conflict with the aim of federation. The whole point is to give people the power to create their own instances with their own rules instead of having to rely on a single central authority. The network isn't necessarily distributed — it's decentralized. An instance can administrate their content as they see fit. An instance cannot alter the content produced by any other instance. An instance can only manage the content originating from itself.
Would you mind being more specific?
Hm, well, it depends on your perspective. The whole point of the Fediverse is to give people the freedom and power to control how they interact with the service. A server has the freedom to associate with the users that they wish in the same way that you have the freedom to consume what you wish. The spirit of the software is to enable people to have this freedom that otherwise wouldn't exist with a large central service. The way I like to look at the Fediverse is where each instance is like a country, and each community is like a regional/state/provincial government within the country, and federation between instances is like cross-border policies between nations.
I'm not sure what you mean by "transparent".
It is user-run, in that any user can create an instance.
It's not P2P. A P2P network would be distributed. The Fediverse is decentralized.
all instance admins have the ability to do this on their own instance, the functionality was added to deal with doxx info being posted so it wouldnt be visible even in the modlog, and it was used a lot to deal with the CSAM spam attack too - basically whenever this happens the relevant message will still be in the modlog but it will be changed to "Permanently Removed". Currently there's no evidence or even accusation that this functionality has been used for anything except the stated purposes though so i wouldnt worry too much.
That's fine on 'paper,' but can you seriously not understand how it's being shamelessly abused on the Tankie / ML front?
well i havent seen anyone even claiming its been used against them or pointing to their post being permanently removed from the modlogs unjustly, only people saying that maybe it could be used in this way, so no i dont think that the ML tankie front are using it that way. and since i know it has been used for its stated purpose to fully remove actual doxx information and child porn i dont see why it should be removed as a feature, at very least until there's some evidence of it being used maliciously
Well then, good for you.
Meanwhile, there's been a legion of solid users here pointing out across the FV that the ML has in fact been abusing its admin powers, or did you think that the whataboutism of CSA would somehow, magically erase that shizzle?
If so, then shame on you.
I didnt say that lemmy.ml mods havent been overbearing with their moderation i said "i havent seen anyone even claiming its been used against them or pointing to their post being permanently removed from the modlogs unjustly".
if you want me to spell it out slowly i can:
In that case, then congrats for living in your own little delirium, apart from the many, many reports people have made reporting those specific abuses.
can you link me a single example of someone saying that they had their post removed from the mod log
Absolutely.
I will make it a special point tomorrow to look up the many, many posts upon that matter made in the last couple days across the FV.
One also wonders what people like you were doing in the meantime, but never fear-- please DO add on with any more requests for such information in the coming days. I will be happy to do the lookups and get back to you. ^^
just to clarify i want evidence of this specific admin function being misused, i and everyone else already knows that the lemmy.ml mods are trigger happy with their bans, but you’re claiming that they’re misusing the anti-CSAM feature to remove comments from the modlog that they actually removed for criticising china to cover their tracks which i havent seen anyone else accuse them of
Right, that was one aspect of that, but at the end of the day?
What ML has clearly done is to fuck with the integrity of the Lemmy-sphere across multiple, fundamental levels, and that's what I and many others find completely unacceptable, and have of course stated as much.
Seriously, how is it even possible that you're browsing the FV and haven't seen this shit...?
Yes, yes-- I get the fact that you're a 'self-declared weirdo!' "Big proponent for killing all cis men! Token Trotskyite!"
You DO understand of course that civilisation is collapsing fast, much of it due to our bloody inactions, is it not..?