For more discussion and your own suggestions you can post in https://lemmy.world/c/policy
Text post rather than image of text https://lemmy.world/post/13834866
this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2024
199 points (82.2% liked)
General Discussion
12084 readers
1 users here now
Welcome to Lemmy.World General!
This is a community for general discussion where you can get your bearings in the fediverse. Discuss topics & ask questions that don't seem to fit in any other community, or don't have an active community yet.
πͺ About Lemmy World
π§ Finding Communities
Feel free to ask here or over in: !lemmy411@lemmy.ca!
Also keep an eye on:
- !newcommunities@lemmy.world
- !communitypromo@lemmy.ca
- !new_communities@mander.xyz
- !communityspotlight@lemmy.world
- !wowthislemmyexists@lemmy.ca!
For more involved tools to find communities to join: check out Lemmyverse!
π¬ Additional Discussion Focused Communities:
- !actual_discussion@lemmy.ca - Note this is for more serious discussions.
- !casualconversation@lemm.ee - The opposite of the above, for more laidback chat!
- !letstalkaboutgames@feddit.uk - Into video games? Here's a place to discuss them!
- !movies@lemm.ee - Watched a movie and wanna talk to others about it? Here's a place to do so!
- !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world - Want to talk politics apart from political news? Here's a community for that!
Rules
Remember, Lemmy World rules also apply here.
0. See: Rules for Users.
- No bigotry: including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia.
- Be respectful. Everyone should feel welcome here.
- Be thoughtful and helpful: even with βsillyβ questions. The world wonβt be made better by dismissive comments to others on Lemmy.
- Link posts should include some context/opinion in the body text when the title is unaltered, or be titled to encourage discussion.
- Posts concerning other instances' activity/decisions are better suited to !fediverse@lemmy.world or !lemmydrama@lemmy.world communities.
- No Ads/Spamming.
- No NSFW content.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm gonna be real, looking through your account, you seem like a bioessentialist. Potentially a terf, though one that hides it well.
Some of the things you've said are rooted in bioessentialism and come off as very backhanded which I'm assuming set off the other commenter's alarm bells. Quit the act or educate yourself from a trans positive feminist angle, whichever fits your role better.
for anyone that happens to read this and feels lost, here is a good place to start with what bioessentialism is and why it's linked to terfs.
Thanks, I see the article now. It must have been part of the edit, so I missed it before. I appreciate you taking the time to make the link.
boooo terf booooo
I have nothing against trans people, I've said nothing against trans people. I didn't know of this term "bioessentialism," but thanks to you, I've just looked it up. It does not describe my views. I am 100% aware of the concept of people being genetically one way while having a different gender. There is nothing wrong with this at all. I have never said anything remotely like that.
This other commenter is not serious. They are pretending to be trans in order to make them look bad. I don't know why they are so hateful, but at this point, there really is no other explanation. There is no reason they would be so awful to someone trying to learn.
booo
eat shit
edit:
yeah i sure fucking hope you did, i linked an article.
The article didn't show up. I appreciate you introducing me to a new term. The whole point of me being here is to learn.
lmao "new term" right okay so you have somehow encountered the word "genetic men" and all these terf ass arguments and points, but you have never heard of a terf or of bioessentialism.
This is what I think happened. Some assholes somehow convinced you that anyone who isn't already super knowledgeable about this stuff has to be evil with deep secret motives. Now, when anyone asks questions or doesn't know certain things, you immediately go into psycho vicious attack mode. This only serves to benefit the asshole. It makes you come across as an absolute asshole who hates anyone who tries to learn. They tricked you. If you want to beat them, then just be kind and quit assuming everyone is out to get you.
It's pattern recognition as a survival strategy.
You're talking to someone part of a vulnerable and marginalized minority group, they're going to be on edge because of so many people that treat us like shit or literally want us dead.
Wanna know how to make sure trans people don't attack you when you (assuming in good faith) "just ask questions?" Don't be argumentative when they tell you something contrary to your preexisting beliefs.
I'm sorry that people have been so very bad to them. I know it sucks. I can't imagine what it is like. I can't relate to what someone must have gone through to make them so angry about questions and common expressions. It must be awful. I feel like it would require an absolute expert to be able to navigate this minefield of potential triggers, and I highly doubt that the average person will be able to do it any time soon, if ever. This isn't just "be kind" and everything will be alright. This is "if you don't have memorized a whole bunch of stuff or if you are new to it, then you will be shouted down and called a bunch of names and told what a bigot you are".
Nobody can be expected to immediately be at that point. This is a perfect recipe for a self-fulfilling prophecy of misunderstandings and ongoing hate. The people who are winning from all this are the people who want there to be needless fights. It's not my place to speak to how traumatized people should behave, so I won't do that. All I can say is that most people I know would much rather avoid conversations that have such a high chance of being so accidentally aggressive and as a result this wall isn't going to come down any time soon.
just gonna repeat this because it seems like you didn't see it
Being unable to contradict, or debate, or dig deeper is no way to deal with an equal human. That is awkward, and unnatural, it is walking on egg shells. Can it really be that there is an entire group of people that don't want to be seen as equals and want everyone to always treat them with kid gloves? I highly, highly doubt it. The vast majority of them must want to just be seen as normal, equal peers. The solution can't be to simply right off a whole group of people as the ones that you can't be relaxed and comfortable around and just speak your mind.
I have no idea how you got any of that from what I said.
Disagree silently if you must disagree, but don't be argumentative.
Our existence and rights are not up for debate.
I would never dream of arguing that you don't deserve to exist or have rights.
This discussion largely started because a good friend of mine, a 17 year old girl, was told that she would have to wrestle against someone who was identifying as a girl. This person was born a male, they went through male puberty, they never took any hormone blockers, they were absolutely going to crush her. A year prior to the fight, this person would have beat you up if you called them a girl. They were in a straight relationship with a girl. I'm sorry, but I won't say it is fair for my friend to have to wrestle them. I won't. It is terribly unfair. This is what I mean when I say that it is OK for me to have differing views.
I'll take "things that never happened" for 500
It did happen, and it isnt like it is an isolated event.
This is very different from your response the last time I mentioned it(unless I have you mistaken with someone else). I thought before you said that the other wrestler had just as much right to fight as she did and "what about the future of the trans wrestler". My apologies if that wasn't you.
oh I thought everyone who disagrees with you is the same person???
Oh my. I don't know what to say.. you're an anomaly to me, truly a fascinating individual.
whatever terf
go talk to blaire white then!! she loves terfs!!!
I've never heard of her, and I doubt whoever she is that she wants anything to do with me.
you would love her!!!! terf!!!
Wow. She is trans, I did not see that coming!
so cute you have all these lines thought up!!!
I was just saying that I was surprised that there was a trans celebrity that you also hated so badly. I can't even come up with how you think this is a rehearsed line or something. I'm once again genuinely lost here.
I am listening to her now to try and get an idea of what her views are and the views of other trans people who disagree with her. I'm seriously blown away that there is so much infighting even amongst trans people. I was wrongfully assuming that the great divide was just between trans and some bigoted anti-trans people. The habit hole continues, I suppose.
nice story terf
cool! want to avoid these conversations? stop talking about trans people!!!
I refuse to abandon a whole group of people. I want a world where all types of people can live in harmony and peace and can all benefit from our incredible variety as a species.
I know this is exhausting and time-consuming, but I have learned so much from this, and I don't regret a fraction of a second of it. The most I can do is hope that eventually you look back on our discussion someday in a positive light, even if right now it doesn't seem possible.
we don't need you!!!! this is a weird hobby!!!
The hobby you are referring to is actually much broader than you realise. It is simply a desire to learn about the world and the people around me, and despite your efforts, I'm not giving it up.
I know you don't need me. I don't have any idea what you need. With my whole heart, I hope you get it whether I am a part of it or not.
oh now it's time for the concern-trolling fetish???
it's not hard to spot wild terfs asking troll questions and bringing up terf talking points!!!
If you are being serious right now, then it absolutely is difficult. You taught me terf. I never know about them before I met you. I have no talking points. I'm a random curious person with no affiliations, I've never voted, I've never been a part of any group that has anything to do with trans people.
so weird how you happened upon the same terms and arguments terfs use!!! just a random person who accuses everyone who disagrees with them of being a fake account or fake trans personnnnnn just a random person asking silly questions tee hee
Yes. Absolutely, positively, seriously, you have apparently been tramatized and tricked into thinking that anyone who doesn't know as much about this stuff as you do must be an evil demon sent to terrorize you. That isn't the case. I'm not them. I'm not. I'm absolutely not. I'm a random person with a good heart. A random person with enough care in my heart that abandoned cheese, chicken, non-vegan detergent, and everything else that has a chance of coming from a tortured animal because I can't stand the though of an animal being miserable on my account. I've done this despite holding the belief that I would be healthier if I continued to risk abusing animals. I tell you all this to explain that I care. I am being completely honest when I tell you that you have been somehow masterfully tricked into seeing average good people as if they are out to get you. I genuinely, 100% want you to be happy.
get off the stage!!!!
I think they're hiding it quite poorly lmao