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'Horrifying' Footage Shows IDF Killing Two Gazans, Burying Their Bodies With a Bulldozer
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 28 Mar 2024
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it doesn't matter if "we" have nukes, it matters that the power occupying that strategic position has it. The US isn't going to launch nukes if Iran marches into Israel, but Iran isn't going to march into Israel so long as they have them themselves. You said it yourself: it is a vulnerable position for global trade. The US stands to loose the most, and all our opposition to gain the most, by a disruption there.
I don't even know why you're still harping on this, it seems pretty unimportant even by your own apparent worldview.
If Israel wasn't there, the US strategic position in the Middle East would not change. It would not be noticeably weaker in any way.
As I said before, I'm a stickler for accuracy. I'm not the only one that keeps discussing it, at any rate. And this vassal state meme irritates me. It's just vidya game meme bullshit, and when challenged, all you folks that like it seem to have is the most nebulous answers that are half-wrong.
edit: Actually, if Israel wasn't there, our strategic position in the Middle East would get stronger. Israel is weakening us by making us so vulnerable to legitimate criticism.
If it were true that Israel means nothing to our strategic objectives, and that our continued alliance weakens us to criticism, then why the fuck would the US continue to support them? Israel offers them influence over the region, otherwise there's no point in supporting their genocide. I would be seriously concerned if the US continued to support them if they didn't have strategic interests through them. I'd love for you to venture a guess as to why you think the US continues supporting Israel, if you think that we'd actually be better off if we didn't have them as an ally.
Make it make sense. You're certainly not a stickler for internal consistency, that's for sure.
I don't know, I think I've been quite consistent throughout.
Asides the reasons I already gave you, that you seem to have suddenly forgotten, of both being ethnically diverse democracies with a long tradition of mutual support, there's actually a much bigger reason:
The US has a vast number of global military alliances. Not just NATO, but also independent alliances with countries like Morocco, and larger bloc alliances, like the Rio Pact with most of South America. In many ways, we under-write global security, a concept sometimes referred to as Pax Americana. That entire system gets put on shakier ground if we suddenly turn around and betray our obligations to any one of those countries in the midst of a war. However we may see it from our own perspectives over here, Israel is very much fighting a war, a nearly total war even. Since we have promised our support, it would take quite a bit to force us to backtrack on that.
Additionally, it's important to remember the US has no history of dropping an ally just for war crimes, and to the contrary, continued to support Turkey despite their own ethnic cleansing of their Kurds, which are actually another US ally entirely. So, the stuff certainly gets complicated sometimes.
Also, don't forget the wishes of the American people. Until more recently, most supported the Israelis. They have particularly strong support on the religious right, so that's another, probably more minor consideration.
So, three reasons, yes? Tradition, is one. Maintaining a reputation for honoring global security commitments, is two, and the biggest. Domestic politics is three.
Against those, all you seem to have is some mistaken assumption that the US drops allies for war crimes. Which is just nonsense. We sometimes commit war crimes, I assume you were aware of that.
That's not a reason to do anything, it's simply a reason not to think about it
Those commitments mean nothing if they are indifferent to abuses, that goes both ways.
Try again. US support for israel's military action in Gaza is at 36%. If this was real, it'd be an explanation as to why we stopped support.
Because they have material benefits to our interests.
Just because you personally do not think a reason is important, like say, global security guarantees, does not mean Biden's State Dept doesn't. And their opinion matters far more than yours. Similar with our history of cooperation.
Your 36% is from recently. You'll note it was not at that level a few months ago. You may also have noticed that Biden's support of Israel has been steadily declining, we have recently stopped protecting them in the UN Security Council, for instance.
You can't describe their material benefits to our interests in any way I haven't already refuted. Position? Unnecessary when they are surrounded by our bases. Military contribution? Minor. Were there others? I forget.
I'm beginning to get the impression you're just petulantly arguing at this point. You haven't said anything about Turkey's history with Kurds, or our long history of supporting other war criminals.