If lemmy.world finds this, please tell my starving children that I love them.
this post was submitted on 30 Jan 2024
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Right vs left is about Capitalism vs Socialism, and generally upholding hierarchy vs abolishing it.
You would not get labeled right wing based on those views unless you had other nonsense going on in tandem.
I would absolutely agree with you on your first paragraph.
But please answer this honestly, "my body, my choice" during covid was labeled "right-wing", you agree?
Doing diplomacy with Putin to end Ukraine war was also labeled "right-wing" putin puppet talking points, no?
Both these are traditional left-wing values.
"My body, my choice" was not a right-wing stance. It was instead an anti-science movement. If you just listen to the words, its easy to think it might be leftist, but the intent behind it was absolutely far-right. A good comparison is "All Lives Matter" or even "White Lives Matter" as a response to "Black Lives Matter."
Diplomacy with Putin to end the war can be right or left. Opposing Imperialism is left wing, what matters is the way you wish to conduct diplomacy, and to what outcome.
So yea, good chance you could be right wing.
"Believe in science", that's anti-science. "My body, my choice" has always been in context of abortion, and viewed as left wing. Here it's the exact same words, the exact same meaning in context of taking an experimental redefined definition of a vaccine. It's in this setting that characters make or breaks. If you cannot uphold your values when they matter, you don't have values, you have hobbies.
It sounds like you're a moral absolutist, and that is absolutely right-wing. Context is key. You can say "It's wrong to kill", but what if the person you killed was trying to kill you, and you acted in self defense? What if killing them was the only choice you had to prevent them from killing you or somebody you love?
Similarly, you can say "My body, my choice", but the situation is different when you're talking about getting an abortion vs. getting a vaccine.
You can call me whatever you like. Here is a text about the differences between ethics and laws, taken from a dentist journal, but the same laws apply here.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jopr.13493
In general, the courts have determined how ethical principles translate into the requirements for how healthcare providers obtain a patient's consent for treatment. Consent from a legal perspective involves respecting the “bodily integrity of the individual.” This dimension emanates from the philosophy of personal autonomy, defined as “an individual's capacity for self-determination or self-governance” or “the capacity to decide for oneself and pursue a course of action in one's life.” The courts view the informed consent requirement for a healthcare provider as a requirement to disclose sufficient information for the patient to make a “controlled decision before undergoing irreversible treatment.”, A patient's consent must be voluntary, meaning “no coercion or unfair persuasion and inducements” and can be withdrawn at any time.
There is no special cut-out for vaccination within the law. In this context a vaccine would be defined as "irreversible [medical] treatment".
Getting a vaccine is a public health issue while getting an abortion is not. By choosing to not get vaccinated, you place other people at risk by increasing your chances of infecting others and by giving the virus more opportunities to mutate.
Here are the rules in Norway from our FHI. The same rules apply in other countries, just more wishy-washy worded...
https://www.fhi.no/va/vaksinasjonsveilederen-for-helsepersonell/vaksinasjon/lover-og-regler-ved-vaksinasjon/?term=#vaksinasjon-er-frivillig
Vaksinasjon er frivillig All vaksinasjon i Norge er frivillig. Personer som anbefales eller ber om vaksine må få tilstrekkelig informasjon om fordeler og ulemper ved vaksinering til å kunne ta et informert valg. Det skal også være åpenhet om usikkerhet og kunnskap som mangler.
Translate it and weep.
Here are the rules in Norway from our FHI.
https://www.fhi.no/va/vaksinasjonsveilederen-for-helsepersonell/vaksinasjon/lover-og-regler-ved-vaksinasjon/?term=#vaksinasjon-er-frivillig
Vaksinasjon er frivillig All vaksinasjon i Norge er frivillig. Personer som anbefales eller ber om vaksine må få tilstrekkelig informasjon om fordeler og ulemper ved vaksinering til å kunne ta et informert valg. Det skal også være åpenhet om usikkerhet og kunnskap som mangler.
Translate it and see for yourself.
If you are to the left of someone, and they are not informed, they will call you right-wing.
Nah, not bothering to do your legwork for you.
I thought I would be nicer to you than I was to the previous guy I answered. I wrote; "Translate it and weep". Here is the translation;
Vaccination is voluntary. All vaccination in Norway is voluntary. People who are recommended or ask for a vaccine must be given sufficient information about the advantages and disadvantages of vaccination to be able to make an informed choice. There must also be openness about uncertainty and possible lack of knowledge.
Cool, why exactly do I care about this?
"its easy to think it might be leftist, but the intent behind it was absolutely far-right."
I provided an example of a far-left, very articulate answer to refute this. If i were you, I would stop and reflect on this.
I cannot make you care, only you can do that.
You gave an example of people saying a thing. That doesn't make it leftist or not.
"You gave an example of people saying a thing. That doesn't make it leftist or not."
I gave you a quote from Norways FHI (equivalent to USA HHS), citing the rules of, "My body, my choice", proving that the most leftist stance is to have FULL bodily autonomy without any vaccine cut-outs. Norway is to the left of USA, certainly regarding these rules.
There are no if's or but's about this, I don't think you can get this any clearer than these words: "Vaccination is voluntary. All vaccination in Norway is voluntary. People who are recommended or ask for a vaccine must be given sufficient information about the advantages and disadvantages of vaccination to be able to make an informed choice. There must also be openness about uncertainty and possible lack of knowledge."
It's directly from their fhi.no official government webpage.
Those are my arguments that "My body, my choice" is as far left as you come.
I can add that we have a cut-out for this rule. The only way a doctor can over step the wishes of his patient is if the patient actively pursues actions that will result in intentionally self harm. And no, this does not include a person not taking vaccinations.
No, lol. Leftism is about worker ownership of the Means of production and a general rejection of unjust hierarchy. A leftist group saying something does not mean that thing is leftist.
Yes, that is the core issue, and the most important one. How will you archieve this if you don't have free speech or bodily autonomy? A very broad definition of leftism is everything that helps plebs.