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Realistically, how can Palestine gain it's freedom? (suppo.fi)

submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by bartolomeo@suppo.fi to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

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We know what happens with peaceful protests, elections, and foreign interference (and more foreign interference), so how can Palestine gain it's freedom? Any positive ideas are welcome, because this situation is already a humanitarian crisis and is looking bleaker by the day.

Historical references are also valuable in this discussion, like slave revolts or the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, although hopefully in the case of Palestine a peaceful and successful outcome can be achieved, as opposed to some of the historical events above.

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[–] Admetus@sopuli.xyz -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

If Jews are indigenous to Judea does that mean that Jews never intermarried with Jews of other countries? And if they did, how can they then be called indigenous any more?

[–] danhakimi@kbin.social 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

... what?

"Jews of other countries" are also indigenous to Israel / Judea / Canaan / Palestine / whatever you want to call it. I'm a Persian-American Jew. Before Iran, my community came from Israel. Is it possible that there are some Russian Jews in my family tree? Or Egyptian Jews? Or Bucharian Jews? Or Iraqi Jews? Yes. Are they all still indigenous to Israel? Yes.

Conversion to Judaism is extremely rare, but it does happen. Is it possible that some portion of my family tree converted to Judaism and is not indigenous to Israel? Sure. Does one drop of Iranian blood in m DNA make me somehow not indigenous to the place the rest of my ancestors are from? Hell the fuck no. Especially given that my ancestors in Iran were never welcome for long. It's also worth noting that, since the Arab Conquest reached Iran, conversion from Islam has been, for most of that time, illegal (it's currently punishable by death!), so the idea of converts to Judaism is extremely rare.

This is a strange, disturbing line of reasoning. You wouldn't ask Native Americans with ancestors from two different tribes how they can be called indigenous, would you?

What's going on here?

[–] Admetus@sopuli.xyz 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Actually the opposite, it's a line of reasoning that supposes that no-one is really indigenous to anywhere in particular, thereby avoiding the good ol' extreme claims to sovereignity.

The history of Israel is littered with invasion anyway, so again, the idea of indigenous peoples at this point requires a reworking of the definition of 'indigenous' to people who have lived there for some time.

I'm expecting a bit of the ol' 'It was the Jew's to begin with' so I'll just say in advance there's no point in my continuing if that starts cropping up in replies.

[–] danhakimi@kbin.social -1 points 10 months ago

Actually the opposite, it’s a line of reasoning that supposes that no-one is really indigenous to anywhere in particular, thereby avoiding the good ol’ extreme claims to sovereignity.

... what? So you don't know what indigeneity is, so you just said, "fuck it, we're going to do away with the concept altogether so nobody has a right to live anywhere at all!"

I'm always baffled as to where you people think the Jews should be living.