this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2024
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[–] Positronic@lemdro.id 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (6 children)

I definitely think Apple and Samsung can do a smaller premium phone if they want to as Apple makes the lion's share of profits in the industry and Samsung is the only other manufacturer that makes a significant amount of profit. Heck Samsung can probably do a smaller midrange phone as well. I do not think it makes sense for other manufacturers as they make 3% profit and targeting a very vocal but demanding minority isn't going to help them improve that.

Small phone users should also temper their expectation, I saw a lot of comments from people saying they didn't get the iPhone mini because they expected the Pro Max's specs in the mini form factor. They have to understand that the cameras on the biggest flagships occupy a lot of space and it isn't feasible to bring it to a smaller form factor. Increasing the thickness might help with the battery but that's about the only component that benefits with an increase in one dimension.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

The S23 and S24 are solid phones at a regular size. So Samsung already do normal sized flagships. It's the mid-low range that is lacking, they are all oversized in that price range, so people don't have much choice but to buy an oversized phone.

[–] Positronic@lemdro.id 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah they're regular sized, you could consider the iPhone 15 and 15 Pro as regular sized as well. I think they could probably do a smaller phone about the size of the iPhone 12/13 mini as well if they wanted to. However I'm not sure if they'll do it since the S22 is their smallest phones since the S10e and they haven't gone smaller than that unless you go all the way back to the S4 (which itself has a similar width to the S10e). I understand why they wouldn't do it because it seems the people who want an iPhone 5S to iPhone mini sized phone are extremely vocal but that doesn't seem to translate to numbers in real life.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

People would probably buy smaller phones if given the correct choices, I think the iPhone 15 size is good yeah. iPhone is often a fashion statement, so people usually want the highest end they can get and manufacturers tend to put more features in their bigger more expensive models.

There's no options in the mid-range for smaller phones, most are over 6.5 inches. So people are forced into buying them, there's definitely a large market for small phones, but manufacturers force them into larger models. I suspect they are easier/cheaper to make, so that's what we get. Also bigger numbers = better right, so they'd rather crank the marketing on battery, screen etc.

[–] Positronic@lemdro.id 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don't think they're going to be able to put the same cameras on a smaller phone, especially if you look at something like the Xiaomi 14 Ultra or the Oppo Find X7 Ultra. The sensors are massive and require a lot of space. You may be able to fit two of those sensors on a 6.1 inch phone without compromising on other things like the battery, haptics, antennae for example. They could probably fit a bigger battery by making the phone thicker but it seems like manufacturers like a uniform thickness for most of their models or somewhere thereabouts probably because it's easier to machine the frame.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Of course there's some limitations yeah, though the S24 and iPhone 15 have great cameras, more than enough for the majority of people. Most people aren't power users and won't even look at specs in-depth, just a glance at what it looks like, storage and price. Size would definitely be a factor people would consider (and already do when they can) and it's a real shame there aren't more options.

To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?

[–] Positronic@lemdro.id 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not a fan of the cameras on the S24 and base iPhone 15. Samsung have recycled the same cameras for three generations now, I think they can put a larger primary sensor in there.

To be honest looking at the teardowns it's impressive what Apple and Samsung have managed to fit in their phones, I think the Xiamoi 14 Ultra isn't doing itself any favours with that camera placement though, seems inefficient having the modules in the middle of the phone?

Idk, Apple does a better job with the Pro as compared to the regular model. Google, Xiaomi and Asus managed to fit bigger batteries on the Pixel 8, Xiaomi 14 and Zenfone 10 without increasing the size too much. Here's a teardown of the Xiaomi 14 Ultra. It seems like they're using space pretty efficiently in there.

[–] warm@kbin.earth 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Fair enough, but I think for most people the cameras are more than enough. I haven't used the iPhone ones but the Samsung ones are honestly fantastic already. It's diminishing returns past that point, like it's buying an actual camera territory.

It feels like with the cameras in the middle, they have to have smaller PCB area around them? Whereas if they are to the side, there's a larger space for a PCB. I don't know though, I think the phone is ugly anyway.

[–] Positronic@lemdro.id 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yeah that's a fair point. I don't like the output of the primary sensor and the 3x on the S24. Feels like they oversharpen and oversaturate colours way too much. Also feel the hardware is lacking compared to the Pixel 8 and iPhone 15 Pro's sensor as they're physically bigger and don't have as much of a problem with shutter lag.

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[–] Ilandar@aussie.zone 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Small phone users should also temper their expectation

Every time there is a small phone thread here or on reddit most of the comments are from people complaining that there is no small phone with the equivalent features of their near 7-inch flagship. People do not seem to weigh size in the same way as other features and are not willing to make compromises for it. Small phone fans need to think seriously about how important and practical all their supposedly "essential" high end features actually are versus physical size. There have been plenty of chances to buy and own smaller phones in the past and these people didn't buy them because they weren't perfect. This is the result.

[–] Positronic@lemdro.id 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah it's strange some of them expect the exact same specs as the Pro or Ultra phone in a smaller form factor. Some sacrifices have to be made to fit components in a smaller form factor as you cannot overcome the laws of physics. I've seen many ridiculous comments saying manufacturers can fit the same cameras and all the sensors along with a bigger battery if they made the phone thicker. It's almost as if they expect the bigger phone to get neutered to maintain parity.

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[–] skuzz@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

It started as a hardware problem and doesn't seem to be slowing down. LTE needed more and larger antennae for lower frequencies than older tech. Four cellular antennae are now pretty standard. Then you have wifi, Bluetooth (which can share if they can TDM), wireless charging, NFC, ultra wideband, GNSS. Then the chips are so powerful they need heat dissipation systems installed (or just lame thermal throttling like what Apple does.)

The modems require more power, (especially at the beginning of LTE) which means bigger batteries. LTE and NR have reduced range compared to the older narrowband technologies, so the phone needs to use more power to transmit, especially when carriers like Verizon didn't backfill cell sites to compensate for the reduced coverage.

Then, cameras, one wasn't enough, 4 or 5 are very common now (usually 3 primary and depth or low res sensors for aiming.)

When tablets became popular, many people decided to just have a large phone screen rather than a tablet, further entrenching the size.

The tech is more mature now, a 2-antenna MIMO antenna for cellular would suffice, albeit at the expense of network performance. Likewise one camera with a depth sensor would work, although mobile photography would be more limited. Dropping some limited-use items like wireless charging and ultra wideband could further shrink space.

So it would be possible now, but as others here have mentioned, the supply side focuses on larger hardware.

Ironically, at this point I'd almost prefer a smart watch with LTE and stop carrying a phone altogether. However, the aforementioned antenna issue makes it so watches generally have poor to unusable signal, poor battery life in cellular mode, no camera, and the 5G NR low power spec/chips aren't fully done yet, so it's LTE only on them, which, with carriers transitioning to 5G will make it so watches can only access a handful of congested bands.

Also, that device manufacturers tend to design smart watches to be companion devices to a smartphone rather than primary makes that concept's execution problematic.

Another idea I had that was anti small phone but huge battery boost was to just bring a backpack or a satchel or whatever. Carry a full sized tablet around, and use a Bluetooth headset for calls. However, tablets are also often crippled by carriers/manufacturers so they can't do common things like SMS or voice calls, and Apple has basically monopolized that market.

[–] ferralcat@monyet.cc 3 points 8 months ago

I hate small phones. I switched back to an iphone SE years ago and realized it was a pita to use anymore. Everything is.. too small.

[–] aluminium@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

I actually think the opposite is true as well. Phones these days mostly exist between 6.2 and 6.8". We don't actually have any huge phones as like the Galaxy Mega 6.3 (which with modern 19:9 aspect ratio screens and smaller bezels would be more like 7.5") don't exist either

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 2 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Bigger screens make it easier to use as my main computer, thank you.

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