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Have a look at this post, we had a similar discussion there: https://lemmy.world/post/3074361
Long story short, the platform still needs a bit of work before being able to really move communities. Some examples exist (lemdro.id, piracy, startrek) but those are tech savvy audiences, there would be a lot more friction with more generalist communities
I fully agree with you. And I want to emphasize that the main issue is that if you start advertising Lemmy like OP suggest before it's "fully ready" to give the best experience to this people, they will decide now that lemmy is not for them and after that it's very difficult to make they try again and change their mind.
One thing that annoys me coming from Reddit is, that there isn’t just one group of each theme. You have for example gaming groups on several instances and you can either chose to subscribe to a number of those or chose the one you like.
But in the end, one will be the go-to group, and wouldn’t that centralize the most popular groups?
(Honest question, I’m new to Lemmy and the thoughts behind it)
instances are like countries with their own constitution (rules) and police (mods). This means that two communities in different instances may seem the same, but they are not, because they have to follow the rules and culture of their instance.
Just like a Technology club in Japan will not be the same as the Technology club in the US because they will be culturally different. I think it will take some time for the Fediverse to think this way.
For me, this is better. Instead of having one giant technology community where your comments and posts are drowned out, we can have different technology communities with their own culture and norms, just like we visit different countries. Your comment and posts will be not drowned out.
It is a different paradigm to the centralised one of Reddit.
Yep, if you're not from the US, instances are vastly superior.
Imagine all the times people from around the world asked for plumbing help on Reddit and got hit with "that ain't up to code, buddy, get to ass down to Howm Deeepo" 😂
Americans do tend to assume the internet revolves around them, as they're a bit insular and don't see that it really, really, really doesn't
A lot of that is social media/algorithmic too. It wasn’t until I start migrating to Lemmy (specifically lemm.ee) that I started seeing a lot of varied content.
Seriously? Aren't the anti-USA comments getting a bit tired by now?
This is not an anti-American comment, but a fact. The USA is a superpower and a big country. As a superpower, americans don't need to be informed about what happens in the world because it doesn't affect them. Their country is the source of world power. And Americans tend to travel within their country because it's big and full of tourist attractions.
Compare that with Canada, which has 40 million people. We need to be aware of every single decision the US makes so that the country can adapt. There is a famous quote from Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau: "Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt."
Yes, the USA is a big country and a superpower.
But things that happen in the world do have major impact on the country and all of its citizens. The need to be up to date and aware of world events is critical. Everyone should be educated. It is the only way to make informed decisions.
You may not have meant it as an anti-American trope but it came off that way. Even the comment you attribute to Trudeau is a thinly veiled insult to our country. That is not lost on me or others here in the fediverse or other American citizens. The anti-USA bashing has become hackneyed and decidedly juvenile.
I expect better from you.
They are tiring honestly, I agree
These two comments prove my last sentence
You don't notice the "anti"-everything comments, only the ones you perceive as "America-hate"
And by the way, nobody hates you, you're just really bad at dealing with sarcasm
No, they don't. I was addressing specifically the anti-American sentiment that seems to be the "hip thing to do". Nothing more, nothing less.
Just because I did not mention any other energy wasting hate speech does not mean I am not aware.
I still expect better from you.
It also needs about 1000% less hostility when it comes to anything beyond superficial discussion. Basically every news thread just gets brigaded by idiots trolling with pictures of pig shit. I get it, internet is not serious business, but in terms of actual discourse at the moment, this place is worse than Facebook.
Wow, my experience is very opposite this. It sounds like you're describing reddit to me honestly. I've seen way less hostility here compared with Reddit
It depends on what content you consume I guess. On Reddit, news subs generally enforce decorum pretty strongly which really eliminates outright trolling. On lemmy there is the opposite of this in many places - lemmygrad and hexbear openly state that it is their goal to shit up threads to deny "shit libs" a platform, and the mods on several major instances seem to openly allow it.
So if you never consume that kind of content on either platform, you'd never notice the relative toxicity of lemmy.
That's why instances need to defederate and block lemmygrad and hexbear, to discourage that behavior.
This is neither here nor there, but the only thing I hate with a burning passion more than right wingers is the tankie filth that pervades those instances.
the mods on several major instances seem to openly allow it.
Mods AND Lemmy developers.
Wait, do you any links to them admitting that? I believe you, but it's a good idea to have that saved.
I say this as someone who hates tankies just as much as the next dude, but that community isn't really productive nor helpful. If you seriously have an issue with lemmygrad there are many instances that have defederated from them (i think sh.itjust.works is?). A community like that does nothing but to bring drama within the lemmyverse. Yes, their views are at times abhorrent but you are just provoking a community that already has major issue with large portions of the lemmyverse. We really should leave that toxic drama stirring behind.
You just asked for evidence.
Didn't you just say "it's a good idea to have this stuff saved"
I predict it will be the mobile apps that get us over that hump
I do agree, however I would argue that an increased user base would help accelerate progress on improving lemmy
To be honest, people who are tech savvy and bug tolerant enough to be on Lemmy are probably already here. There were quite a few discussions about it (and still now on Reddit)
Yeah, people say we should use small instances to keep things spread out but two of the ones I tried have major posting issues that stop comments working, We really need to stress test and big squish before we really push it to everyone, some of the issues I've seen have been fixed and on general it's very stable so I don't think it's got far to go
How about we just forget about trying to beat anyone and just get on to using the platform.
Reddit won't die anytime soon.
Lemmy won't become popular anytime soon.
It took Reddit years before it became a major platform known by millions. It will take Lemmy years to gain notoriety among millions. Give it time, enjoy what it so now because in a year, two years or three or four years from now, we'll all be wishing for the good old days when Lemmy just started and we were able to enjoy the simple system it is now.
Reddit really did benefit from the fall of Digg though - this was about just shy of 20 years ago? Digg was where Reddit is now, thoroughly upsetting its user base with wholesale changes to the content of the site that nobody liked, and Reddit capitalized on that, and stole Digg's thunder.
I think Lemmy can potentially do the same. For a second, it looked like Squabbles/Squabblr was going to be the winner, but the last I checked, they imploded after some controversy.
(I came here from Reddit, incidentally - the user interface is very intuitive.)
Yeah lemmy can do the same, but begging redditors to switch won't help anything. I was part of the digg migration, nobody on reddit ever posted on digg to go switch. I just searched for something else, and reddit was there. I certainly didn't spend a second thinking about digg afterwards, and i wont think about reddit either.
Doesn't seem like most Reddit users care. There is still way more activity on Reddit then here, and that probably isn't changing anytime soon. And right now Reddit still has better content since it seems mostly Lemmy is just posts about Reddit.
Not this again...
Lemmy isn't everyones' cup of tea. Reddit, despite the API shenanigans, still does what people want.
People are not moving here from Reddit if they haven't already. They'd sooner go to Discord. Less cognitive load, and their subs already have servers set up. Lemmy has a 5 communities different servers for each sub and most will be inactive, so it's already a losing battle.
Make Lemmy it's own thing, rather than aspiring to be the 2nd head of the Hydra. Organic growth is good, sustainable. Boom and bust wholesale migrations look like failed hostile takeovers.
I think a more appropriate approach is just to mention lemmy to your circles of friends and try to get any redditors you personally know to give lemmy a try, at least get the app installed so they can browse both reddit and lemmy. Lemmy won't be able to handle millions upon millions of new people, especially ones with no guidance, but communities aren't built overnight and we should do our best to get those who could use lemmy to use lemmy, one at a time. We shouldn't be trying to overthrow reddit, just give a viable alternative to those willing to try one. It's the more organic approach.
"Hello we are from the Church of the Fediverse, have you a moment to talk about our Lord and Saviour Lemmy? No not the tankies one"
Much the popular posts in lemmy are memes, shitpostings, or politics/technology news which we can easily obtain from other media. The way I see it, lemmy lacks experts, scientists, doctors etc that that can bring interest and credibility to the posts or threads. They can help generate quality contents, what lemmy lacks till now.
I'm really not interested in this being a Reddit clone. Several of the subreddits I wanted to be rid of have already popped up, here, while the better side of Reddit isn't really showing up, especially since Reddit re-opened and purged pesky mods so they could all get back to their scrolling.
Oh, yes lawd, that's what I need. I need fucking antiwork to shit up the place with their misery vibe while 196 goes skipping back to Reddit and takes all the fun times with her. Sign me up.
I wanted to become involved with a completely different community, with different mores, a different feel, and its own vibe. Fuck Reddit. I left that place looong before the blackout thing, I got tired of its toxic culture that sucked the life out of me after a few minutes.
Now that's starting to leak into Lemmy and I'm frankly eyeing the door.
If you liked Reddit, you need to go back there. I didn't like Reddit. I don't want to go back there. I don't want there to come here, either.
The joy of the Fediverse is that growth is nice but we don't NEED growth. A lot of you can't understand that. You can't understand that the platform will NOT fail if it doesn't get the kind of exponential, runaway growth that you associate with social media success. We do not actually need to hit TikTok numbers, ever. We need steady, slow user growth from people wanting something different, that's what. If the Fediverse becomes the Linux of social media, fine.
So no. No to this idea. Let Reddit stay on Reddit, thank you.
So we are gatekeeping lemmy now lmao?
I've been a reddit user for at least 15 years. I've been a Lemmy user for a few months. Lemmy has a long way to go before it's a "viable Reddit alternative". Right now it's barely usable.
You find it unusable? How so?
In all honesty, as much as I want non-profit Reddit alternatives to succeed, I think Lemmy is a tough sell to Redditors. Here's roughly how I think that'd go.
Lemmy user: "You should try Lemmy"
Redditor: "Sure, what's its website?"
Lemmy user: "There are many"
Redditor: "Wait what"
Lemmy user: "You have to pick one"
Redditor: "Why?"
Lemmy user: "See, Lemmy is not a website, but a network of federated instan-"
Redditor: "That sounds complicated. I just want a website like Reddit"
Lemmy user: "But don't you care about how Reddit has treated its mods, app devs and the general community?"
Redditor: "Yeah but all this Lemmy and Kbin stuff is confusing. Can I just use a website without reading up on all this Fediverse stuff?"
Lemmy user: "Okay, just go to Lemmy.world"
Redditor: "It seems to be down"
Lemmy user: "Hmm, maybe try Lemmy.ml?"
Redditor: "This website looks a little... hard to wrap my head around"
Lemmy user: "There are alternative frontends"
Redditor: "What now?"
Lemmy user: "Do you know about Alexandrite?"
Redditor: "Nevermind, I'm out"
If we want to convince a wide range of users to use Lemmy, we have to make using Lemmy a no-brainer for everyone.
I'm trying to contribute by building a new opensource web UI that I hope will provide a better UX for the average Redditor. It's not ready to become a daily driver yet, but I'm hoping to get to a point where it's nice enough that instances will want to host it on their domain. Maybe I'm delusional in thinking this web UI will appeal to users that don't like the current ones. But there's only one way to find out, and that is to build it.
Oh, we're promoting our open source web UI now? Well, ngl, mine's kinda lean; it's Leanish!
Heck yeah, share your work with the world.
We should probably compile a regularly updated list somewhere. It's great that people have so many options. Now we just need to make it easier for them to find a web UI that suits their needs.
Nice strawman.
Lemming: You should try Lemmy, it's a way to have reddit style content, but without a company controlling it.
Redditor: Wow cool, Fuck Spez. Where do I join?
Lemming: it doesn't matter, every domain that participates has the same content, here's a list of places to choose from.
IMO the biggest thing Lemmy needs is a better onboarding experience and an official page that recommends mobile apps/alternate front-ends. One of the Lemmy devs said they wanted to overhaul https://join-lemmy.org/ and it's on their list, which is a good first step. Until then I think it's best to wait before trying to capture the average audience and have them leave in confusion.
Honestly, I would rather Lemmy attract its own community naturally rather than it be the place all redditors pipe into. I think most people who have already come from there can agree the culture is not really conductive to quality discussion, and we've started to see some of that leak into Lemmy as well.
Rather than just copy/paste reddit's users and culture, we should try to develop both on their own. Create an environment that users want to spend their time on. Then through word of mouth on other platforms they entice people here. I don't think just being the place redditors flood after every fuckup is healthy for the growth of the platform. As a Mastodon user, I'm kinda glad it isn't the primary platform Twitter refugees are flocking to.
Do we actually care about "beating" Reddit? As long as a friendly & knowledgeable community exists on Lemmy, do we really care about also being the largest?
Hmmm. So I think I posted on Reddit maybe a half dozen times ever? I didn't get the appeal. It kinda felt like shouting into a thunderstorm... I'm not sure I "get" Lemmy either, though it feels more like talking in a crowded room than everyone shouting at a cloud. :p More seriously though, I've had a few interesting conversations here, but miss the feel of forums of the 2000's where people just talked about stuff that they were making. Lemmy feels like everyone is striking up a conversation, but still trying to be careful about talking about their own interests because that's "self promotion". :-\ I dunno, maybe I'm looking for something that just doesn't exist anymore.
No. Most large Reddit communities are toxic, both on the user and mod end. Let Lemmy grow at its own pace without repeating the same mistakes Reddit made.
Right now lemmy feels more toxic to me than reddit in many ways. I've never been on a reddit news thread where people were openly trolling and posting pictures of pig shit in response to comments they don't like.