this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2025

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Linux is one of the last bastions for the tinkerer (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 4 days ago by bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works to c/linux@lemmy.world

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Thought of this the other day. I bet a lot of us are like this, because in today's world a lot of things we used to tinker with are gone (electronics are made to be single use and unfixable, cars are proprietary and can rarely be modified or worked on without many many thousands of dollars now, etc).

Sure, there are still hardcore electronics projects going on and people doing massive restoration projects and such, but i consider them basically geniuses, not just tinkerers who enjoy messing around and learning in their spare time while working 50 hours a week.

Im glad linux gives us a space to exist!

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 75 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

Cory Doctorow warned in 2011 of "the coming war on general-purpose computation." Ordinary people being able to control their electronic devices is a threat to entrenched power, both governmental and corporate. Since he gave this speech we've been on a continual trajectory of all the major tech corporations giving users less and less control over the devices they use, both in hardware and in software. It's only a matter of time before there's an attempt to make it impractical to run Linux on a device of your choice.

This is one reason open-source hardware is so important. We need it so there's always some kind of computing device we can run Linux on and tinker with. Otherwise we could be locked out completely in the end.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 25 points 4 days ago

Holy cow, I've been looking for something like this!! I've been curious if our current state of everything being handed to us is resulting in less adventurous people who enjoy learning. I definitely see it in my friend group, tech being easy has made many of them super lazy and impatient.

[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 11 points 4 days ago (2 children)

thankfully cpu speed improvements seem to be slowing down so current general purpose computers will probably be still very viable in 10yrs time

[–] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 4 days ago (2 children)

That’s frankly been the case for a while now unless you’re a AAA gamer or 3d rendering or doing LLMs or something. I used a laptop from 2012 until 2022 then replaced it with a 2019 laptop (i9, Radeon 5600) which I’m using now and plan to use until at least 2030. For the vast majority of us that just browse, watch videos, use office software, teleconference, compile small projects, and the occasional indie game/emulator old hardware is fine. Consumerism makes you think it’s not.

[–] Hansae@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago

Im still rocking a laptop from 2006 for light coding work & note taking lel

[–] Jumuta@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago

hell yeah, old laptops rock

[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Yes, I hang on to a number of old devices for this reason. Almost anything from the last 10-15 years can still be pretty useful if it isn't broken. And when you install an appropriate Linux distro you see how fast the old device can go.

[–] Texas_Hangover@lemmy.radio 5 points 2 days ago

HAM radio and mesh stuff too!

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 24 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Thought of this the other day. I bet a lot of us are like this, because in today’s world a lot of things we used to tinker with are gone (electronics are made to be single use and unfixable, cars are proprietary and can rarely be modified or worked on without many many thousands of dollars now, etc).

I feel the exact opposite. Today I can tinker in ways I never ever could before for two reasons:

so many more technological solutions exist

3D printing
CAD
wireless (near field, Wifi, and cell network)
large format printers for paper, vinyl, and fabric
CNC for wood and metal cutting

components are so cheap relative to the past

single board computers (Arduino, ESP32, RaspberryPi, etc)
high quality optics and CCD cameras
mountains of cheap storage
small and large LCD displays, eink

When I started out the cheapest computer was today's equivalent of about $2000. To be able to buy a whole computer in a Raspberry Pi zero for $10 is insanely awesome! Electronic components from Radio Shack were few and very expensive. Test equipment like oscilloscopes were simply out-of-reach financially. Now I have a handheld one I bought for $200.

This is an amazing time to be alive with tinkering!

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

This is it.

You don't have to tinker anymore, but if you want to, you can do so, so much more that years ago.

I created a handheld physiotherapy game console for sick kids using a Lilygo T-HMI ESP32-S3 board for €17. Performance-wise it's somewhere between GBA and NDS. I built an OS with an app system where the users can load games from the SD card. It's got a 3D printed shell and monitors inhalation/physiotherapy using an off-the-shelf air pressure sensor. All of that was doable as a one-man hobby project within a year.

I created a smartphone keyboard attachment. Blackberry spare keyboard, custom self-designed Arduino-compatible PCB, custom firmware, parametarized 3D printed shell. Works like any old USB keyboard and connects to the phone via USB C. I have been using this as a daily driver for the last four years.

All of that can be done on a tight budget as hobby projects next to real work. The resources are just available. No university degree necessary.

Tinkering much easier (and you have more abilities) than ever before!

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

This is so cool! I applaud you. I always figure all that stuff already exists so why build it again

[–] squaresinger@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Thank you!

These two things didn't exist before I made them. My physiotherapy game console is currently the only one available, and in total the only one that is open source.

There is by now another smartphone keyboard attachment, the Clicks, but there wasn't when I made my keyboard, and there still isn't another one for the Fairphone 4 and the Samsung Galaxy A54.

[–] BoloMKXXVIII@piefed.social 4 points 3 days ago (1 children)

How much of the hardware and software you use must be registered, requires internet access to work, a proprietary app? You don't actually own anything that fits in those categories and they can be taken away from you at the manufacturer's whim.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

How much of the hardware and software you use must be registered, requires internet access to work, a proprietary app? You don’t actually own anything that fits in those categories and they can be taken away from you at the manufacturer’s whim.

While there are certainly commercial versions of those that fall into those categories, there are many that don't.

My 3D printer from Monoprice has a power plug and and SD card slot. No requirement to connect it to the internet at all for it to function.
Here are 7 FOSS CAD software packages that aren't own by any company.
There are countless NFC and Wifi modules that don't require a "call home" to the vendor that can't be turned off. Cell modems may be a special case because you're using a providers network.
There are lots of large format printers that, once the drivers are install, need zero network connections to operation. No vendor shutoff possible unless you allow it.
Same for CNC machine. Certainly at the high end industrial scale this may be different, but there are many of solutions for home and commercial users that don't require an always-on connection.

[–] BoloMKXXVIII@piefed.social 1 points 2 days ago

Then I guess Linux is not one of the last bastions for the tinkerer.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Yes, you can definitely do all those things, but they're far outside of the realm of a normal consumer, and unless you know, to look for those things. It's a lot harder to find.

This feels a little bit like the x k c.D comic where they're talking about how everybody knows the chemical makeup of minerals.

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yes, you can definitely do all those things, but they’re far outside of the realm of a normal consumer, and unless you know, to look for those things. It’s a lot harder to find.

I'm confused by your premise then. If you're saying "Today's consumer electronics can't be tinkered because they require specialized knowledge." I'd argue that was always the case. How much tinkering could be done to an Atari 2600 from 1977?

How much tinkering would be done to a VHS VCR from 1989 without specialized knowledge?

These are prime examples of prior generations of consumer electronics.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Its much easier to just look at those devices and guess how they work. Follow traces. Find a broken pin on an interconnect. Replace a rubber band on the drive mechanism.

Also its funny you brought that up because I've always been into atari and still have my 2600, 7800, And pong machine.

You cant do this on basically any device today because of planned obsolescence. Try repairing almost any laptop made today. Or better yet a phone. I fixed every single component on my razr and had it for 6 years. Id still be using it if it was supported and modern life didn't basically require a smartphone.

Same with cars. It really started going downhill in 2015. Cars are basically a rolling Apple product now, totally proprietary and nearly impossible to fix without an ee degree.

Again, your average tinkerer or kid, is locked out of doing so, unless they really show initiative and go down a road of 3d printing and raspberry pis, but id say then youre in full nerd territory.

[–] beetus@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I feel your premise remains flawed with these examples. The average consumer is not tinkering in the ways you describe, regardless. The average person isn't following traces, looking for broken pins, or guessing how devices work.

You may have an intimate understanding of the technologies of your youth/life but that is not a universal truth amongst people of the time you are referencing.

The same people repairing their VHS in the 90s are replacing their android smart phone screens or batteries today. As the other posters have mentioned, tinkerers today are even creating their own competition products or major revisions thanks to cheap compute modules, arduinos, 3d printers, and cheap electronic parts from China.

Check yourself, you are assuming life was better in the past when the reality is that today features far more opportunity at an affordable cost with copious resources/tutorials for any individual to manipulate their technology.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago

You right on some accounts! Don't get me started on things that were better in the past lol, I can go on for days.

Ita true there's still lots to do for those that seek it out! All I was originally saying is I love how linux hasn't been corrupted by enshittification like everything else.

Also if you can fix any smartphone or laptop made today, you must have extremely precision tools avilable to you, because corps have made repair on almost everything impossible now vs how it used to be. I worked in a repair shop, I've experienced it.

[–] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 1 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Even outside of this, film has been seeing a resurgence in the photography world lately, and even in the more general art world, you can still pick up some crayons and some blank paper relatively cheaply and go to town with that, for example.

On top of Linux being a thing for computing and PCs not becoming as locked down as Apple devices or even mobile devices in general, yet, there's going to be some level of ownership over your stuff for the foreseeable future.

This also extends to older cars which can still be tinkered with by the owner while those are still emissions-legal.

[–] AmazingAwesomator@lemmy.world 12 points 4 days ago

i think it is wonderful that it is used by both the tinkerer and the normal user.

i am on linux because i enjoy learning and tinkering. my wife is on linux because of MSRecall - she just wants a computer. both if us have very different reasons to use it, and love it for very different reasons.

she loves that plugging anything in automatically "just works" - probably the thing she has fallen in love with the most. she doesnt have to worry if drivers only work with win95, no sketchy website downloads, etc..

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 7 points 4 days ago (5 children)

I mean, this makes no sense, but it's a window into a particular mindset.

FWIW, computer builds are about as complicated as they've been for a decade, there's a whole new market for at-home object creation ranging from 3D printers to affordable laser cutters (sometimes both in the same machine), retro computers haven't gone anywhere and are way more popular than ever as a hobby. If the real stuff is too hard to find or expensive there are now ways to build replacements ranging from single board FPGA units to kits where you can buy a PCB and all the components to solder at home.

There are now self-installable solar panel kits, fully open source home automation systems, and a whole subculture of very manageable self-hosting built around recycled old hardware. As a penis wielder of a certain age I feel like my socials are made up of nothing but aggressive hobbies to sink money on while pretending I am more crafty than I am so me and my middle aged friends can brag past each other about our computing habits or gardening habits or building habits or health habits.

BUT this is a thing. This is a thing people feel. They will go check a Linux distro because it feels weird and hands-on and crafty and adventurous, even though it's..., you know, installing an OS on a computer that mostly works fine.

If it's any consolation, this has been part of the appeal for three decades, give or take a few years. The "nothing else we can tinker with" angle is relatively novel, though.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Open source hardware is the bigger issue

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 4 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Open source hardware is the bigger issue

We have more open source hardware today than has ever existed. Prior to RISC-V boards you can buy right now every single CPU available was closed source. Further, RISC-V is cheap which means it is a good foundation for future growth and scaling.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

RISC is not fully developed yet, people are working on it, but we don't have mainstream purchasable stuff yet

[–] partial_accumen@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

As I said, "good foundation for future growth, but even then you can buy boards and even a couple of laptops right now with RISC-V CPUs:

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

Let's hope it takes off

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 2 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Is it?

I mean, you can "tinker" just fine on commercial, proprietary hardware. That's the point of programmable computers in the first place.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Microcode that runs the chip: what does it do? Is it back doored? Closed source chip architecture means we can't develop for it or know the operation

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

So just to be clear, OP is here saying owning a Raspberry Pi goes beyond tinkering and is for engineer nerds and you're jumping in to propose that you want to develop your own microcode or you riot?

You may be in the wrong thread, friend. If you want to chat about how afraid you are of what AMD and Intel are putting in your morning cereal you may want to start your own conversation about it instead.

[–] BCsven@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 days ago

Yeah you might be right. I dont like microcode locked down.

Already burned by 2017 null password vulnerable on IME.

MS and government will use proprietary crap to become more invasive.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Try modifying a tesla and get remotely locked out when it phones home (actual scenario)

Thats the future of all electronics corps want!

[–] MudMan@fedia.io 3 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Yeah, no, but that's my point. Cars, and particularly certain cars, have become less accessible and more locked down.

But a bunch of other stuff has popped up that wasn't there before, too. Try home automation, self-hosting, 3D printing or energy self-generation back when you remember servicing your own car or modifying the exhaust on your motorcycle (teenagers here didn't have cars in the first place, actually).

That's why I'm saying you're mixing up two things. It's one thing that corpos are closing down mainstream consumer products, it's a very different thing to claim there is no tinkering left outside of... installing Linux in your old laptop and having to troubleshoot it constantly or whatever that scenario is.

It's just not true. There's plenty of tinkering left, new and old, in a bunch of spaces. Which is not connected to whether or not you get to upgrade the RAM in your Mac Mini. Different things.

[–] MalReynolds@piefed.social 3 points 3 days ago

servicing your own car or modifying the exhaust on your motorcycle (teenagers here didn't have cars in the first place, actually)

Today's equivalent is building your own ebike, and it's awesome and way easier than rebuilding an engine.

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[–] Libb@piefed.social 3 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Im glad linux gives us a space to exist!

+1 to this, and that is only because I can't upvote a lot more as your post deserves ;)

Just in case you or anyone reading your post had not already considered the option: one can still easily tinker with older electronics. Provided ones doesn't need the most powerful CPU/GPU (I don't), one can easily find (for cheap) older computers (desktops and/or laptops) that are easy to open and whose parts can easily be replaced. I do that with my computers, only buying used models I know I will be able to upgrade/fix when needed, and they're more than powerful enough for my needs.

Also: craft & DIY outside of consumer electronics is still a great way to tinker and it too can be done for cheap.

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I love my old pcs but they dont seem to have nearly enough power to do what I need anymore, unless you stay off the internet and just use windows 98 era media packs haha

[–] Libb@piefed.social 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Well, I don't use Windows, I use the latest version of my Linux distribution (that just updated... today) and 'the Internet' works just fine ;)

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

What do you do with those low power machines though? Outside of being a text editor or maybe a low powered audio server i cant think of anything one would do. They definitely cant play games, I suppose they could emulate nes games.

[–] Libb@piefed.social 1 points 3 days ago

What do you do with those low power machines though? Outside of being a text editor or maybe a low powered audio server i cant think of anything one would do. They definitely cant play games, I suppose they could emulate nes games.

I don't do anything with any of them. I just shared how I select and keep working the machines I need for my own use. I don't collect them and I don't own a repair shop. I say that but I sometimes 'fix' old computer for people looking to get rid of Windows or macOS... They often are surprised by how well their old machines or an used computer can work under a modern version of Linux to let them do exactly the same things they were doing previously, just without spywares and without all the crap.

Like I think I mentioned already, it all depends what one needs out of that machine.

I don't play much games beside chess, which I mostly play over the board (irl) and sometimes online, on lichess.org and chess.com, two platforms where one doesn't need a powerful computer in order to play. I don't use my computer that much and mostly I use it to write, browse the Web, listen to music and play DVD or video files. The sole video game I seldom play (WarThunder, I played it 2 days in a row last week but had not touched for maybe a year, maybe more) works good enough with my old GPU.

And then one should not forget that there is a wide range of secondhand machines available in-between what I would qualify as 'obsolete' computers (barely able to browse the modern shitty-scripts-filled Web) and the machines able to play the latest & most demanding games. It's always a question of finding the right compromise between what one may want to have and what one really needs. At least, that's how I consider it ;)

[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

There are a lot of old things that just need some love to get back to working order. You can tinker with lots of things, just not many brand new things. Why buy something new just to tinker with it?

[–] bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Agreed, but the old things are disappearing fast and going to scalpers, and will never be made again. Makes me sad to thik about.

[–] AlexLost@lemmy.world 1 points 3 days ago

Just like patent lawyers stifling innovation. The world is going to shit and people with no accumen in anything but money have ruined everything.

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