Did anyone expect them to go "oh, okay, that makes sense after all"?
this post was submitted on 02 Oct 2023
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At the crux of the author's lawsuit is the argument that OpenAI is ruthlessly mining their material to create "derivative works" that will "replace the very writings it copied."
The authors shoot down OpenAI's excuse that "substantial similarity is a mandatory feature of all copyright-infringement claims," calling it "flat wrong."
Goodbye Star Wars, Avatar, Tarantino’s entire filmography, every slasher film since 1974…
Uh, yeah, a massive corporation sucking up all intellectual property to milk it is not the own you think it is.
But this is literally people trying to strengthen copyright and its scope. The corporation is, out of pure convenience, using copyright as it exists currently with the current freedoms applied to artists.
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AI training isn’t only for mega-corporations. We can already train our own open source models, so we shouldn't applaud someone trying to erode our rights and let people put up barriers that will keep out all but the ultra-wealthy. We need to be careful not weaken fair use and hand corporations a monopoly of a public technology by making it prohibitively expensive to for regular people to keep developing our own models. Mega corporations already have their own datasets, and the money to buy more. They can also make users sign predatory ToS allowing them exclusive access to user data, effectively selling our own data back to us. Regular people, who could have had access to a corporate-independent tool for creativity, education, entertainment, and social mobility, would instead be left worse off with fewer rights than where they started.
Is actually reminds me of a Sci-Fi I read where in the future, they use an ai to scan any new work in order to see what intellectual property is the big Corporation Zone that may have been used as an influence in order to Halt the production of any new media not tied to a pre-existing IP including 100% of independent and fan-made works.
Which is one of the contributing factors towards the apocalypse. So 500 years later after the apocalypse has been reversed and human colonies are enjoying post scarcity, one of the biggest fads is rediscovering the 20th century, now that all the copyrights expired in people can datamine the ruins of Earth to find all the media that couldn't be properly preserved heading into Armageddon thanks to copyright trolling.
It's referred to in universe as "Twencen"
The series is called FreeRIDErs if anyone is curious, unfortunately the series may never have a conclusion, (untimely death of co creator) most of its story arcs were finished so there's still a good chunk of meat to chew through and I highly recommend it.
OpenAI is trying to argue that the whole work has to be similar to infringe, but that's never been true. You can write a novel and infringe on page 302 and that's a copyright infringement. OpenAI is trying to change the meaning of copyright otherwise, the output of their model is oozing with various infringements.
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I don't care what works a neural network gets trained on. How else are we supposed to make one?
Should I care more about modern eternal copyright bullshit? I'd feel more nuance if everything a few decades old was public-domain, like it's fucking supposed to be. Then there'd be plenty of slightly-outdated content to shovel into these statistical analysis engines. But there's not. So fuck it: show the model absolutely everything, and the impact of each work becomes vanishingly small.
Models don't get bigger as you add more stuff. Training only twiddles the numbers in each layer. There are two-gigabyte networks that have been trained on hundreds of millions of images. If you tried to store those image, verbatim, they would each weigh barely a dozen bytes. And the network gets better as that number goes down.
The entire point is to force the distillation of high-level concepts from raw data. We've tried doing it the smart way and we suck at it. "AI winter" and "good old-fashioned AI" were half a century of fumbling toward the acceptance that we don't understand how intelligence works. This brute-force approach isn't chosen for cost or ease or simplicity. This is the only approach that works.
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seethe
Very concerning word use from you.
The issue art faces isn't that there's not enough throughput, but rather there's not enough time, both to make them and enjoy them.
That's always been the case, though, imo. People had to make time for art. They had to go to galleries, see plays and listen to music. To me it's about the fair promotion of art, and the ability for the art enjoyer to find art that they themselves enjoy rather than what some business model requires of them, and the ability for art creators to find a niche and to be able to work on their art as much as they would want to.
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Copyright is already just a band-aid for what is really an issue of resource allocation.
If writers and artists weren't at risk of loosing their means of living, we wouldn't need to concern ourselves with the threat of an advanced tool supplanting them. Nevermind how the tool is created, it is clearly very valuable (otherwise it would not represent such a large threat to writers) and should be made as broadly available (and jointly-owned and controlled) as possible. By expanding copyright like this, all we're doing is gatekeeping the creation of AI models to the largest of tech companies, and making them prohibitively expensive to train for smaller applications.
If LLM's are truly the start of a "fourth industrial revolution" as some have claimed, then we need to consider the possibility that our economic arrangement is ill-suited for the kind of productivity it is said AI will bring. Private ownership (over creative works, and over AI models, and over data) is getting in the way of what could be a beautiful technological advancement that benefits everyone.
Instead, we're left squabbling over who gets to own what and how.
fourth industrial revolution" as some have claimed
The people claiming this are often the shareholders themselves.
prohibitively expensive to train for smaller applications.
There is so much work out there for free, with no copyright. The biggest cost in training is most likely the hardware, and I see no added value in having AI train on Stephen King ☠️
Copyright is already just a band-aid for what is really an issue of resource allocation.
God damn right but I want our government to put a band aid on capitalists just stealing whatever the fuck they want "move fast and break things". It's yet another test for my confidence in the state. Every issue, a litmus test for how our society deals with the problems that arise.
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I think the place we haven't quite gotten to yet is that copyright is probably the wrong law for this. What the AI is doing is reverse engineering the authors magic formula for creating new works, which would likely be patent law.
In the past this hasn't really been possible for a person to do reliably, and it isn't really quantifiable as far as filling a patent for your process, yet the AI does it anyway, leaving us in a weird spot.
US patent professional here
Ya, saying it isn't possible to do under patent law is no understatement. Even making the patent applications possible to allow would require changes to 35 U. S. C. 112 (A, and probably also B), 35 U. S. C. 101. This all assumes that all authors would have the time and money and energy to file a patent, which even with a good attorney is analogous to is many many hours of work and filing pro se would be like writing a whole new book. After the patent is allowed the costs of continuation applications to account for changes in the process as the author learns and grows would be a hellish burden. After this comes the 20 year lifespan of a patent (assuming all maintenance fees are paid, which is quite the assumption, those are not cheap) at which point the patent protections are dead and the author needs to invent a new process to be protected. Don't even get me started on enforcing a patent.
Patent law is fundamentally flawed to be sure but even if every author gets infinite money and time to file patents with then the changes needed to patent law to let them do so would leave patent law utterly broken for other purposes.
Using patent law for this is a good idea to bring up but for the above reasons I don't think it is viable at all. It would be better and more realistic to have congress change copyright law than to change patent law I think. Sadly, I don't think that is particularly likely either. :(
Can't they just create a brand new law, specifically to cover these use-cases we have here?
Edit: And thank you for your detailed answer! It was educational.
They could and imho (I'm not an expert on this) they probably should. This would fall under unfucking copyright though, or perhaps under a new thing along side copyright and patent law (though that sounds like more work than updating copyright law). Amending it into patent law would be the toughest option. The simple answer as to why I think that is that the vibes are off.
As a rough analogy it would be like combating public flashers by changing the rules for the department of transportation rather than the criminal justice system (ignoring how fucked the criminal justice system is).
And patent law is even more broken than copyright law.
I don't know if I would say more broken, at least patents have limits on how long they can exist for, putting an upper bound on how much damage they can cause. The again, limiting the production of vaccines during a pandemic is a lot more urgent than letting people do micky mouse cartoons so the standard for what broken is has to be a lot more stringent. It is more important for patent law to not be broken than it is for copyright law so the same amount of brokenness feels worse with patents.
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
ChatGPT creator OpenAI has been on the receiving end of two high profile lawsuits by authors who are absolutely livid that the AI startup used their writing to train its large language models, which they say amounts to flaunting copyright laws without any form of compensation.
One of the lawsuits, led by comedian and memoirist Sarah Silverman, is playing out in a California federal court, where the plaintiffs recently delivered a scolding on ChatGPT's underlying technology.
At the crux of the author's lawsuit is the argument that OpenAI is ruthlessly mining their material to create "derivative works" that will "replace the very writings it copied."
The authors shoot down OpenAI's excuse that "substantial similarity is a mandatory feature of all copyright-infringement claims," calling it "flat wrong."
It can brag that it's a leader in a booming AI industry, but in doing so it's also painted a bigger target on its back, making enemies of practically every creative pursuit.
High profile literary luminaries behind that suit include George R. R. Martin, Jonathan Franzen, David Baldacci, and legal thriller maestro John Grisham.
The original article contains 369 words, the summary contains 180 words. Saved 51%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Here’s current guidance from US Congress regarding AI copyright infringement.
Page 3 includes guidance on fair use.
"substantial similarity is a mandatory feature of all copyright-infringement claims"
Is that not a requirement? Time for me to start suing people!
I take it we don't use the phrase "good writers borrow, great writers steal" in this day and age...
Wait till they find out photographers spend their whole careers trying to emulate the style of previous generations. Or that Adobe has been implementing AI-driven content creation into Photoshop and Lightroom for years now, and we've been pretending we don't notice because it makes our jobs easier.
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