this post was submitted on 01 Jul 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] olafurp@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (7 children)

The thing is that it's legit a fraction and d/dx actually explains what's going on under the hood. People interact with it as an operator because it's mostly looking up common derivatives and using the properties.

Take for example ∫f(x) dx to mean "the sum (∫) of supersmall sections of x (dx) multiplied by the value of x at that point ( f(x) ). This is why there's dx at the end of all integrals.

The same way you can say that the slope at x is tiny f(x) divided by tiny x or d*f(x) / dx or more traditionally (d/dx) * f(x).

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[–] someacnt@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

But df/dx is a fraction, is a ratio between differential of f and standard differential of x. They both live in the tangent space TR, which is isomorphic to R.

What's not fraction is \partial f / \partial x, but likely you already know that. This is akin to how you cannot divide two vectors.

[–] callyral@pawb.social 25 points 3 days ago

clearly, d/dx simplifies to 1/x

[–] socsa@piefed.social 3 points 2 days ago

The world has finite precision. dx isn't a limit towards zero, it is a limit towards the smallest numerical non-zero. For physics, that's Planck, for engineers it's the least significant bit/figure. All of calculus can be generalized to arbitrary precision, and it's called discrete math. So not even mathematicians agree on this topic.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

1/2 <-- not a number. Two numbers and an operator. But also a number.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

In Comp-Sci, operators mean stuff like >>, *, /, + and so on. But in math, an operator is a (possibly symbollic) function, such as a derivative or matrix.

[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Youre not wrong, distinctively, but even in mathematics "/" is considered an operator.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_(mathematics)

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

oh huh, neat. Always though of those as "operations."

[–] bhamlin@lemmy.world 21 points 3 days ago

If not fraction, why fraction shaped?

[–] chortle_tortle@mander.xyz 88 points 4 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (6 children)

Mathematicians will in one breath tell you they aren't fractions, then in the next tell you dz/dx = dz/dy * dy/dx

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 21 points 4 days ago

Have you seen a mathematician claim that? Because there's entire algebra they created just so it becomes a fraction.

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[–] benignintervention@lemmy.world 81 points 4 days ago (3 children)

I found math in physics to have this really fun duality of "these are rigorous rules that must be followed" and "if we make a set of edge case assumptions, we can fit the square peg in the round hole"

Also I will always treat the derivative operator as a fraction

[–] MyTurtleSwimsUpsideDown@fedia.io 64 points 4 days ago (11 children)

2+2 = 5

…for sufficiently large values of 2

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 23 points 4 days ago

i was in a math class once where a physics major treated a particular variable as one because at csmic scale the value of the variable basically doesn't matter. the math professor both was and wasn't amused

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[–] rudyharrelson@lemmy.radio 67 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Derivatives started making more sense to me after I started learning their practical applications in physics class. d/dx was too abstract when learning it in precalc, but once physics introduced d/dt (change with respect to time t), it made derivative formulas feel more intuitive, like "velocity is the change in position with respect to time, which the derivative of position" and "acceleration is the change in velocity with respect to time, which is the derivative of velocity"

[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 35 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Possibly you just had to hear it more than once.

I learned it the other way around since my physics teacher was speedrunning the math sections to get to the fun physics stuff and I really got it after hearing it the second time in math class.

But yeah: it often helps to have practical examples and it doesn't get any more applicable to real life than d/dt.

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[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago
[–] vaionko@sopuli.xyz 42 points 4 days ago (3 children)

Except you can kinda treat it as a fraction when dealing with differential equations

[–] socsa@piefed.social 2 points 2 days ago

And discrete math.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 4 days ago

Oh god this comment just gave me ptsd

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[–] Gladaed@feddit.org 13 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Why does using it as a fraction work just fine then? Checkmate, Maths!

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[–] shapis@lemmy.ml 12 points 3 days ago (6 children)

This very nice Romanian lady that taught me complex plane calculus made sure to emphasize that e^j*theta was just a notation.

Then proceeded to just use it as if it was actually eulers number to the j arg. And I still don’t understand why and under what cases I can’t just assume it’s the actual thing.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

e^𝘪θ^ is not just notation. You can graph the entire function e^x+𝘪θ^ across the whole complex domain and find that it matches up smoothly with both the version restricted to the real axis (e^x^) and the imaginary axis (e^𝘪θ^). The complete version is:

e^x+𝘪θ^ := e^x^(cos(θ) + 𝘪sin(θ))

Various proofs of this can be found on wikipeda. Since these proofs just use basic calculus, this means we didn't need to invent any new notation along the way.

[–] shapis@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I'm aware of that identity. There's a good chance I misunderstood what she said about it being just a notation.

[–] jsomae@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 days ago

It's not simply notation, since you can prove the identity from base principles. An alien species would be able to discover this independently.

[–] sabin@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

It legitimately IS exponentiation. Romanian lady was wrong.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Let's face it: Calculus notation is a mess. We have three different ways to notate a derivative, and they all suck.

[–] JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 points 2 days ago

Calculus was the only class I failed in college. It was one of those massive 200 student classes. The teacher had a thick accent and hand writing that was difficult to read. Also, I remember her using phrases like "iff" that at the time I thought was her misspelling something only to later realize it was short hand for "if and only if", so I can't imagine how many other things just blew over my head.

I retook it in a much smaller class and had a much better time.

[–] zea_64@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 3 days ago

I've seen e^{d/dx}

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[–] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Having studied physics myself I'm sure physicists know what a derivative looks like.

[–] moobythegoldensock@infosec.pub 21 points 4 days ago (1 children)

It was a fraction in Leibniz’s original notation.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago

And it denotes an operation that gives you that fraction in operational algebra...

Instead of making it clear that d is an operator, not a value, and thus the entire thing becomes an operator, physicists keep claiming that there's no fraction involved. I guess they like confusing people.

[–] Mubelotix@jlai.lu 2 points 2 days ago

We teach kids the derive operator being ' or ·. Then we switch to that writing which makes sense when you can use it properly enough it behaves like a fraction

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 23 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (8 children)

Look it is so simple, it just acts on an uncountably infinite dimensional vector space of differentiable functions.

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[–] SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 6 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I still don't know how I made it through those math curses at uni.

[–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago

Calling them 'curses' is apt

[–] voodooattack@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago

Software engineer: 🫦

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