this post was submitted on 27 May 2025
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[–] sxan@midwest.social 55 points 1 month ago (48 children)

I think non-Germans can't understand the deep social guilt that's been drilled into them since WWII. Since childhood they're told how horrible they were to the Jews, what atrocities they committed; they're taken on field trips to concentration camps where it's explained in graphic detail what their grandparents did to the Jews; there is a deep cultural guilt around the Holocaust, and although many different people suffered, it's specifically focused on Jews. Even I don't understand it; when I was living there I asked some question I don't even remember about the Holocaust of one of my German friends, and he quite politely told me "we don't talk about that." It's a subject of guilt and embarrassment.

It's easy to criticize the West for not taking a stand against the genocide in Palestine that Israel is perpetrating; we do not, and can not, understand what Germans (in general, there always exists some racist fascists in every country) have to overcome to take such a stand. You might think they'd be champions against genocide, but what it ended up being was cultural guilt about murdering Jews.

All those Germans in power now were the children of a generation who survived the war as children, and who all had it beaten into them how horrible a people they were and how terrible the atrocity against the Jews they executed. If any country is going to struggle with condemning Israel, it's going to be Germany, and the people who the rest of the world has been using as the villain in TV and movies for 80 years; who've been beaten on the head about the Holocaust since childhood.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 22 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I think non-Germans can’t understand the deep social guilt that’s been drilled into them since WWII

Except they only defend Israel...

LGBT was a target too, is Germany standing up for LGBT?

What about the Romani?

What about communists?

What about people who spoke out against genocide?

The Jewish victims of the Holocaust made up about 50% of it's victims. Why unquestionable support for them, but not for other groups?

It's great Germany's seeing the light now, but don't act like they had a rational excuse for blindly supporting a genocide of a different group.

[–] electricyarn@lemmy.world 18 points 1 month ago (1 children)

That's exactly the point op is making.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

All those Germans in power now were the children of a generation who survived the war as children, and who all had it beaten into them how horrible a people they were and how terrible the atrocity against the Jews they executed.

They're ignoring 50% of the people their parent's generation killed, and excusing the other 50%'s children committing their own genocide against a different group...

They're explicitly not making the same point as me...

[–] papalonian@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago

there is a deep cultural guilt around the Holocaust, and although many different people suffered, it's specifically focused on Jews. Even I don't understand it;

OP isn't ignoring it, the culture is.

[–] tjsauce@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Is it an excuse, or an explanation?

[–] sxan@midwest.social 14 points 1 month ago

You didn't read what I wrote; I'll assume because it was too verbose for you.

I said

although many different people suffered, it's specifically focused on Jews.

and

You might think they'd be champions against genocide, but what it ended up being was cultural guilt about murdering Jews.

In the West we ignore the communist victims because we were in a cold war with the Communists. We ignore the LGBTQ because we also oppressed the LBGTQ communities. We didn't carve a new country out of other country's land for anyone except Jews. And the West was a, if not the, major force directing the reeducation of the German populous after WWII.

[–] BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I find this "You can't blame Germany for supporting genocide, because they're guilty about the Holocaust!" defense kind of hard to believe. After all, Germany also committed genocide against the USSR, and yet "Russia delenda est" seems to be an extremely mainstream position among Germans currently.

It’s easy to criticize the West for not taking a stand against the genocide in Palestine

Actually we're criticizing them for actively supporting the genocide.

we do not, and can not, understand what Germans (in general, there always exists some racist fascists in every country) have to overcome to take such a stand.

This is incredibly tone-deaf, given what people in Gaza are actually having to overcome.

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[–] unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Honestly i am surprised. I expected Merz to become the EUs last man standing on the Israeli side.

[–] AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@sh.itjust.works 18 points 1 month ago (1 children)

He is. Remember that they are not stopping the sales of arms to Israel. These are only "strong words" to appear a little less nazis.

[–] SattaRIP@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 1 month ago

Luckily the internet will remember who went mask off and thought they'd get away with it by just putting it back on.

[–] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 month ago

He's doing the Democrat thing now where he is "working tirelessly towards a ceasefire".

[–] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The last men standing were always going to be the extreme-right thugs that have been meeting with the Israeli diplomats Netanyahu has been using as his personal money couriers.

Yeah true, i had active political leaders in mind, but there is an increasing overlap between those and the thugs you described.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 7 points 1 month ago

I love how this thread devolved into

but has anyone thought about what the Germans went through. Give them a break, they are working through the trauma of Ww2.

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