this post was submitted on 20 May 2025
62 points (80.4% liked)

Asklemmy

48161 readers
594 users here now

A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions

Search asklemmy πŸ”

If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!

  1. Open-ended question
  2. Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
  3. Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
  4. Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
  5. An actual topic of discussion

Looking for support?

Looking for a community?

~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~

founded 6 years ago
MODERATORS
 

As simple as possible to summarize the best way you can, first, please. Feel free to expand after, or just say whatever you want lol. Honest question.

(page 3) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (4 children)

Consciousness exists. This implies that either consciousness is some emergent property of sufficiently complex interconnected systems, or it's some universal force that complex interconnected systems "channel".

If it's emergent, it seems less presumptuous to assume that the most complex interconnected system of all, the universe itself, would develop consciousness. That universal consciousness might as well be called "God". If it's a universal force, it might as well be called "God". Anyway you slice it, a universal consciousness seems inevitable from a sober metaphysical analysis.

Lots of people have ascribed lots of culturally specific attributes to the universal consciousness which are obviously quite silly. The core statement that "I am that 'I am'" is really the only meaningful attribute we can identify.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

If it's emergent, it seems less presumptuous to assume that the most complex interconnected system of all, the universe itself, would develop consciousness.

Is the universe the most complex interconnected system? Complexity implies not random. It seems to be nearly perfectly random. Not understanding something is not the same thing as it being complex.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It seems to be nearly perfectly random

How so?

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

It forms structures, but it's exactly what you'd expect from a random process. We expect some points of higher and lower density, not pure uniformity, in randomness. The structures we see are just the results of random processes. If you zoom out far enough it looks just like noise, as you'd expect from randomness.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

We expect some points of higher and lower density, not pure uniformity

Which is precisely what we see. I'm not sure where you're getting the impression that it's totally random noise, every scientific and mathematical field is based on the universe having consistent, ordered rules of operation.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Which is precisely what we see.

Yes, that's what I said. Pure randomness expects points of higher and lower density, not pure uniformity, as we see, which implies it's pure randomness.

every scientific and mathematical field is based on the universe having consistent, ordered rules of operation.

This has nothing to do with being random noise or not. In fact, random noise requires consistent ordered rules. If that isn't the case then you get something non-random where the rules change to achieve desired results, which isn't what we observe.

[–] agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm really not sure how you're defining "randomness" then, or how that randomness precludes complexity and interconnectedness.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] 1SimpleTailor@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Sort of, but it's more a comforting theory rather then a true belief. I came up with it when I was younger, doing a lot of psychedelics, and meditating often on the nature of existence and reality.

My theory is that God is everything. The earth, the stars, our fellow beings. All of reality makes up a complex web that I loosely refer to as a "consciousness" for lack of a better word. The nature of this "consciousness" is incomprehensible to us. It does not activly intervene in our daily lives, and operates on a scale beyond our comprehension. Mostly, it simply is. It is the oblivion from which our consciousness was once plucked, and it is where we will one day return.

In essence, each of us is a tiny fragment of reality experiencing itself. The meaning of life is to experience it. All of it. Joy, pleasure, and suffering. It is all a part of the whole of existence. When we die and return to the infinite our individuality is lost, but maybe God learns something about itself.

[–] rainrain@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

I saw something fitting a common description for God (in meditation). Yes, a total mystic vision.

(The creator of reality. A star (that also looks like a jewel) that emits poetry energy. And then I react to that energy by dreaming this dream that I call reality. Like contriving lyrics for an instrumental song.)

No intelligence or personhood as far as I can tell. Just a vast brainless mystico-cosmological gusher of energy.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] andybytes@programming.dev 3 points 2 days ago

In times of peace, I'm agnostic. In times of christofascism, I'm militantly atheist. People go to church or talk to God because it is an existential crisis. They are just scared of dying. Momento Mori.

[–] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 4 points 2 days ago

Simple answer: I find I carry on believing in God in much the same way I believe in Science. A mixture of experience, logical coherence, testimony, teaching from people I trust, and connection with other things I know/believe, that makes - to my mind - God's reality overwhelmingly more likely than not.

[–] lemmylemonade@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

I don't but, wow!? Is that your bedsheet?

[–] weirdbeardgame@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (19 children)

I'm LDS some people might call us Mormon.

The short of it is I asked God and I felt his presence. Not like any earthly feeling, more like the burning the bible / new testament describes.

But even without any of that I'd still have believed / known. I just, always have if that makes sense? I might've gone a different direction in my beliefs but I'd still have known he's there.

[–] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 2 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Does it feel correct that there are levels of heaven, better and worse heavens on other planets? I always felt this is disturbing to me, but it makes sense what you are saying

[–] weirdbeardgame@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not so much "levels of heaven" in that anyone's values lesser than others. It's that God understands his children, he understands we're all different. I like a plain pepperoni pizza. Some people like supreme pizza, some people God forbid like pineapple on their pizza.

He's not going to force one person or another into this route definition of "heaven" because supreme pizza may not be heaven, nor plain pepperoni or pineapple.

Sorry if that analogy doesn't make sense.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (18 replies)

The pattern looks like a boxershorts or Lederhose

[–] markovs_gun@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

There are definitions of "God" that I feel are hard to prove, but others that are easy. For example, of your definition is "God is the ultimate cause of the universe" then it's pretty trivial that if everything has a cause there must be an end of the chain. Of course, this the could be a computer program running the universe simulation or even just the laws of physics themselves if those are truly causeless. But nonetheless, it's still a somewhat satisfying definition of "God" so I'm comfortable saying I believe in God. Harder definitions include "God is an omnipotent being" (which most of God's traditional attributes can be derived from) and "God is the being described in the Bible/Qu'ran/other religious text" which I feel like are unprovable.

A lot of religious apologists will make arguments in favor of the easier definition and then try to claim that this means their specific view of God is real. Personally I think that's insane. Like "there must be some end of the chain of causality therefore God became a Jewish carpenter in the ancient Roman Empire." Even if you're Christian that should be a bad logical jump.

[–] Fuck_Team@lemmy.one 5 points 3 days ago

I believe in a god but it is strange lol. I will truly never understand the concept of being all knowing and powerful so my idea is he's either so bored with his existence he created us for entertainment or simply boredom. I imagine him similar to a comic book writer or tv show creator

[–] nagaram@startrek.website 8 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Personally I'm a huge fan of the Alcoholics Anonymous understanding of "god" and I think it applies more widely.

In AA it is supposed to be A-religious so as to accommodate as many people as possible. To them, god is whatever higher power you need to put your faith into to do better. An entity who you are striving to make proud or you are asking for guidance or help, etc.

This genericized god idea kinda gives up the game to me as an atheist, but it doesn't mean it's bad. In fact it's made me believe in god as an idea.

There are plenty of studies on "manifesting" goals and how saying out loud to yourself or to someone at all substantially increases your chance of succeeding in your goal. This is just prayer or a magic spell or whatever else you wanna call it. I call it a ritual.

The fact that god is a made up idea has been uncontested in my mind for eons, however the psychological power of a belief in god is new to me and makes me appreciate the systems of religion more (doesn't excuse a lot of their bullshit).

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Zenith@lemm.ee 3 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I think I believe in something more like… biology and physics working together in some way to create our existence. I had a near death experience once when I was in ICU for several months. I met, a… thing, it was like a large glowing spark but its light didn’t travel away from its self, its glowing was contained to its β€œbody”. I asked β€œis that me?” and the β€œroom” we were in was filled with a sense of β€œno” it’s taken me ten years to process that experience and be able to talk about it, idk what that spark was but I’ve come to accept I believe that is the All Thing, it’s the eternal spark all sentient life stems from, I do believe access to long term memory is critical for being a part of the All Thing not simply being animated biology, like a mosquito for example.

I think the All Thing animates biology as a way to experience the physical world because it must β€œlive” somewhere and we are all avatars, our thoughts are only important in the sense that they lead us to experiences and forming memories. I believe in nonduality and that physics is actually the closest humans will ever get to describing a god, an All Thing

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] NKBTN@feddit.uk 8 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (2 children)

Cos I've done drugs, and experienced heightened states of love, being, appreciation for nature and humanity, states that feel magical yet real, even if only temporarily.

The very fact those states of mind are achievable at all gives me a certain emotional grounding and inner certainty that reality has purpose, or at least meaning. As opposed to just being a happy accident of atoms and energy arranging themselves in this miraculous way to create life. That's just a logical explanation of how, not why.

We're almost all driven to look for meaning in life. Even if it's just to "find your own purpose", that journey presupposes you have one to begin with.

I guess I feel a belief in god without having much idea of what god is, or even what they want. But I don't believe at all that logic, science, reason etc. are things you have to choose instead of religious belief. They're things you have as well. You can't square the two - the Rubik's cube of logic doesn't twist that way.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Libra@lemmy.ml 8 points 3 days ago (16 children)

I don't believe in the Christian god because there are too many contradictions and I don't think the divine truth is corruptable. Anything so corrupt it doesn't even agree with itself cannot be divine truth.

load more comments (16 replies)
load more comments
view more: β€Ή prev next β€Ί