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If only we had made a decision not to scrap the Avro Arrow. Thanks Diefenbaker.
the buck stops here
Doesn't give an actual reason
Gripen might be a stopgap, but it is an older platform. At least with updates it's at least considered a "4.5" generation fighter. F35 is pretty much the best option atm.
Planning ahead though, Canada needs to get involved with either GCAP (Global Combat Air Platform or FCAS (Future Combat Air System).
We can't realistically pull off another Avro Arrow with modern 5th/6th generation features by ourselves. We can partner with more reliable allies though, and help bolster our own defence aerospace industry at the same time. In either GCAP or FCAS, we would be the junior partner though.
I think Canada needs to accept a stopgap measure - the Gripen, Typhoon, Rafale, or Super Hornet - and dive headfirst into GCAP. FCAS is tempting as well, but GCAP is farther along and the countries are probably closer in goals to Canada.
I agree.
GCAP includes Japan (CPTPP partner), and they seem very motivated to not dawdle with getting a modern fighter. GCAP also includes the UK (CANZUK + NATO) and Italy (CETA/EU+NATO).
FCAS is France, Germany and Spain, off the top of my head, and has much less urgency. Of course that could be changing. They're all EU and NATO, so more eggs in a single basket, but more reliable than US.
One other edge to GCAP is that Sweden had considered joining GCAP, but backed out. They might get back in maybe? Saab is pretty damn competent as well. It would be an even better team. Plus if we went with Gripen and already had some cooperation with Saab, could be even easier to work together.
Perun had a good video a little while back⦠here it is https://youtu.be/TTjdEtHYDJ4
I recommend putting a brief description of Postmedia Network somewhere noticeable on that post. Sort of like an abstract for an essay, maybe.
Done!
Typhoons lets gooooo
Just complain about multiple problems with the jet and cancel the order. Ask for a refund on the remaining jet. If no refund is given, advice Krasnov Trump that they will be sold to china.
He'd be OK with that.
Sell them to Cuba.
He wouldn't know what Cuba is. Sell them to France.
I mean yes but i also do not want a real war. Fascists looooove war. Americans too.
You really think anything Canada does is going to change the fascist's minds? They want to take Canada. They're going to try.
I remember before the purchase was made, I was really hoping the government would purchase the Swedish Saab Gripen. I think it was one of the finalists for consideration (that's what I remembered from a few news casts at the time, but not sure if it was an actual finalist, or just someone saying they thought it would be a good option.)
The main reason for me thinking we should have gone with the Saab, was that I trusted buying from Sweden more than the US. I can see the US putting some systems in place that could give them control or some way to negatively affect the F-35s. I remember someone saying that countries don't have friends, only interests, but I'd still trust Sweden more than the US to not betray us in some way.
There's a problem with the engine. It's an US design and the US just blocked a sell to Colombia. I think Saab should make another design with the Typhoon engine or some other European engine that has roughly the same size and push.
Canada can perhaps purchase from Turkiye or South Korea. Turkiyeβs fifth gen fighter had its maiden flight recently but it is still a few years away from entering service.
Get drones and missiles instead. Stockpile them in locations kept secret from the US. Refit our submarines so they're capable of launching missiles again. Keep a few subs in the Caribbean at all times so they can hit their King's winter palace in Florida.
That would be the best deterrent, other than nukes of course... which we'd need missiles for anyway.
I'm not sure how serious your comment is but anyway...what you're describing is a decades-long reorientation of military doctrine and procurement strategy. Getting a different multi-role fighter is already a huge expense with lots of ramifications but no need to throw the baby out with the bath water.
Edit: IMO, if you really wanted to alter air force strategy to deter the US, you should look to Sweden and Finland who have been facing an asymmetric threat for decades. Aquire the Gripen, train with the Swedes in how to run and operate a distributed air force of small independent units capable of generating and performing missions from random roads in the woods.
Are you suggesting that CAF fighting against US air power with our own air power has a chance of success?
The only interest the Trump regime has is monetary. Drones and missiles would inflict damage to the US, and if we keep their locations secret we'd have second strike capability. To achieve deterrence we'd only need to have the capability of inflicting enough damage to the US economy to cost the ruling oligarchy enough money to not be worthwhile to them.
The only immediate threat to Canada is the US right now. Europe won't have a fifth gen fighter for quite some time, we'd obviously get cut off from parts for F-35s if there were a conflict with the US. We'll need time recruit more people into the military to operate any plane and time to train them. We can start buying and producing drones in a much shorter time frame, which is critical given the pace Trump is betraying US allies.
Canada has a shit load of random roads in the woods, so it makes sense
Oh well
So we've apparently committed to buying 88 of these things. What direction out of the contract we have, and what are the consequences?
This would be easier if another ally (or an ally, rather) made a 5th gen fighter, but there are none. We'd be stuck either with ageing platforms or waiting another 10-15 years for Eoropeans to finish one of the 5th gens they're working on.
The problem is that in the event of a conflict with the US, those jets would be entirely unusable because they'd shut them down. And we'd be billions of dollars down.
It would be better to spend that money elsewhere, even if it's out of date, than to have nothing.
Screw this "waiting another 10-15 years." We need to join the GCAP program, and get seriously active.
Lead time is necessarily immense, but we could both shorten it and improve the end product.
"Waiting for someone else to develop" has been a symptom of Canada's Aerospace industry since the Arrow was shitcanned, and has crept into our national subconscious stream. We need to attack that attitude.
I'd be on board with that, but it doesn't solve the short-term problem. I seriously doubt our CF-18s will last another 15 years.
True enough, but we can get stopgap gen 4.5 fighters at about half the price of the F-35, and with a vastly lower operational cost.
Get a fleet of Gripen Es, and run them in parallel with our existing Hornets, replacing the Hornets as they age out over the next decade or so. By then the new GCAP fighter should be in full production.
How long would it take SAAB to ramp up? We're supposed to receive the first tranche of F35s next year.
Defence analysts warn U.S. will ~~control key systems on F-35 fighter jets,~~ put~~ting~~ Canada at risk.
100%. The USA is absolutely not to be trusted. It is a friend to itself only.
Canada should cancel the order and invest in nukes and drones.
Sadly they've also proven they're not even friendly with themselves. They're a wildcard.
If our European friends want to start a made in Europe defense plan, ordering a boatload of next generation fighter jets from them seems helpful...