this post was submitted on 28 Feb 2025

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1997

Diplomacy dies on live TV as Trump and Vance gang up to bully Ukraine leader (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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Summary

Trump just presided over one of the greatest diplomatic disasters in modern history, with flared tempers, raised voices, and shredded protocol.

Never before has a U.S. president bullied and berated an adversary, never mind an ally, in such a public way.

During a tense Oval Office meeting, Trump and JD Vance attacked Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, demanding he accept a peace deal with Russia or lose U.S. support.

The conversation devolved into shouting, with Trump accusing Zelenskyy of being ungrateful and “gambling with World War III.”

The meeting ended in chaos, with no agreement reached.

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[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 1 points 4 minutes ago

Finally a fucking accurate headline. All of this "argument between zelensky and trump" horseshit was so immediate and widespread. Trump couldn't even handle his own unjustified attack. They needed vance to to start with verbal diarrhea and buzz words so dementia donny dipshit had things to free associate with. They ganged up and bullied to try to force him to break, and he held.

[–] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 50 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Holy shit, Trump stopped the war on Day 1, just like he promised. What a genius of diplomacy. The artist of the deal. So american 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[–] Ledericas@lemm.ee 1 points 49 minutes ago

Art of the steal

[–] IronKrill@lemmy.ca 84 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Trump's unreasonable nature is so obvious in the full video that I don't see how anyone with two braincells can be on his side. Some highlights I want to share:

Reporter asks at 37:39 "… and who would protect those minerals … ?" Trump: "They'll be protected. The agreement will protect them. The agreement, yeah we're signing an agreement." Reporter: "Right but what if Russia tries to invade or there's russian agression in those spots." Trump: "I just don't think that's going to happen." He then deflects by trying to discredit the reporter since he couldn't answer the question. So instead of giving Ukraine any guarantees or acknowledging Russia's previous deceit, he hand waves it away.

At 33:45 "… what did [Putin] tell you that he wanted peace?". Trump: "My whole life is deals … I've known him for a long time, he had to suffer through the Russia hoax, you know Russia Russia Russia it was a hoax. It was all Biden it was nothing to do with him … I think that he wants to make a deal and he would like to see it end." What an absolute nothing answer. He's asked why he believes this is viable and after a short attempt at making Russia the victim he just says, rephrased, "because, lol".

At 39:50 Vance goes on a truly incoherent ramble about how Biden tried "thumping [his] chest and pretending that the president of the United States words mattered more than the President of the United States's actions" and thus "the path to peace and the path to prosperity is maybe in engaging in diplomacy". Ah, diplomacy, the path that is famously known for it's lack of words... sending money to Ukraine or providing military aid? Those aren't actions, they're just words. Zelensky goes on to ELI5 to Vance how Putin broke diplomacy before the clips everyone is posting begins.

And just for fun, at 30:15 Trump delivers a line so stupid it almost breaks Zelensky's poker face: "I've stopped wars, I've stopped many wars. My people will tell you, I've stopped wars that nobody ever heard about. I stopped wars before they ever started. … I could give you a lot of nations that would tell you right now they were probably going to war — I could tell you right now there is a nation thinking about going to war on something that nobody in this room has ever even heard about."

This is ignoring all the times they try and blame Biden for Russia invading Ukraine which just ???

[–] dirigibles@lemmy.world -4 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

You seem to be one of the few people I've seen online that seems to have watched the whole video and came away with this take, so I would love a civil response.

I'm certainly not on Trump/Vance's side, but when watching the whole video I can't help but think that Zelenskyy truly failed at understanding the purpose of the meeting and has condemned many more of his countrymen to death. It seemed obvious from the get go that Trump wanted this to be a public deceleration of economic entanglements and that the security discussions would come later. I get Zelenskyy's point that Russia has been impossible to deal with from a diplomatic standpoint and that he didn't want to leave Washington without a security gaurentee, but by publicly shaming Russia from the ovel office he is making diplomacy impossible. My impression is that Zelenskyy wants the war to keep going, but I truly don't understand why. His citizens are dying and they are losing territory. Russia has 10x the population and, historically, has had little reservations about sending their soldiers into the meat grinder. And let's not forget that if Russia gets backed into a corner, they still have nukes that could escalate the situation to unfathomable destruction.

From my nonexpert opinion, if I was the leader of Ukrainian I would be trying to make as many economic deals as possible with foreign nations and look to stop the war asap. I truly can't think of a better alternative than that given the current situation. So my question is, what should the US, EU, and Ukrainians be doing to stop the killing? What is the most realistic path to peace?

And just reiterate, I don't agree with the wording and attitude of Trump/Vance during that meeting, but the general sentiment of economic entanglements seems like the best option at this point. No?

[–] HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 hour ago

It doesnt matter who's right, there's a thing called decorum and controling your emotions. Trump got mad, and made a fool of himself.

Vance was only there to cause this.

[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago)

Zelenskyy was only interested in allowing the US to take their 'rare earth' if the US was also going to guarantee that it would help their defense against Russia's advancements.

Trump claimed the deal had already been made, and tried to make the conference about how great he is and how bad the previous presidents were.

He praised questions that verbally sucked him off, and belittled those who asked genuine questions about the deal.

Then the two Americans bombarded Zelenskyy with questions and refused to allow him to answer.
They talked over him and got upset at him for not sucking their cocks the whole conference.

Zelenskyy was sent out because the babies in the Whitehouse couldn't handle somebody who didn't kiss their feet. He didn't disagree with the deal, he just wanted more clarification and this was taken as a personal attack.

The world does not respect Trump or the US. We laugh at their incompetence and look forward to their ego getting checked.

This whole press conference made the US look like half-assed war profiteers, rather than the 'freedom fighters' they like to roleplay as.

[–] voldage@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The idea that any deal with Russia that wouldn't include rock solid security guarantees would lead to stopping the killing, much less any sort of peace, is extremely naive. This issue is ongoing ever since Russia annexed Crimea, there have been many deals and all of them failed to stop Putin from breaking them. The issue is very simple - Trump can not (and absolutely doesn't want to, from the looks of things) convince Putin to stop the war, because Putin doesn't want the war to stop. It was shown time and time again that they aren't willing to stop their invasion, and only thing that ever thwarted their progress was military opposition. There is no reason to believe that Russia wouldn't just continue the invasion after the deal with USA is made. And Ukraine wouldn't have any benefit from this kind of deal, so why would they go through with it?

Since you watched all of it, as unbearable to watch it was, you probably also heard the comments of Trump in the interview afterwards - that he organized and prolonged this discussion to show the world that Zelensky can not be negotiated with. Whatever you might believe in, it's hard to imagine that as anything else other than admission that Trump never expected his "deal" to go through. They jumped and insulted the president of soverign country and blamed him for the war their close friend started. If your reaction to that is "he shouldn't have reacted to the provocation", then you're missing the point of why they provoked him in the first place. This way, at the very least, he made sure the world despised Trump and that all other allies of Ukraine were sympathetic. His only choice is to weather this storm until the fascist bubble in USA bursts and there is some chance for diplomacy in the future.

As for the economic entanglements, they mean nothing in times when USA is incapable of diplomacy and Russia is unwilling of adhering to any deals. Speaking of any trades where Ukraine is giving up their minerals before USA promises to push Russia outside of Ukraine borders is meaningless, and Ukraine wouldn't get anything out of that.

[–] dirigibles@lemmy.world 1 points 57 minutes ago

Hey thanks for the reply. I know this is an emotionally charged topic, so I appreciate the civility.

I have read a few books, but I would absolutely consider myself a novice on this topic. There is a deep history in that part of the world that I'm sure I will never fully appreciate. I think I am better understanding your point of view, but I still can't wrap my head around it completely. If you'll indulge me, let's table all of the personalities. Forget about Trump, Putin, Zelenskyy, etc. Forget about exactly what words were used during that disastrous press conference and the various followup interviews.

How do we push back at Russia without further risking nuclear holocaust? From what I understand, it sounds like Ukrainian membership into NATO has always been a pipe dream and a complete non-starter. If the USA, Europe, or others put boots on the ground, surely that would spark a dramatic increase in hostilities from Russia.

To your point, I absolutely agree that Russia has reneged on various deals in the past and should not be trusted. I would imagine the only thing that we can trust Russia to do is to act in their own best interest...and honestly, I would say this about any country/corporation/person.

I would think Russia will only walk away from this war when they are able to point at something that looks like victory. So how do they get that while also ensuring the safety and stability of Ukraine? What is the path to peace if not economic entanglements?

Maybe I am being a bit naive about how the world works, but I would hope that if a private US or European company was in a particular region of Ukraine performing mining, logistics, or construction; maybe Russia would think twice before bombing or attempting to take the region over. No?

[–] 96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl 62 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Their first, still very polite disagreement that evening was when Trump said that the US has given a lot more aid than Europe did, to which Zelensky very politely replies 'they gave a lot', clearly avoiding the obvious 'they gave more', to which Trump then replies 'they gave a lot, but much less than we did', to which Zelensky replies with a clear 'no.' and then they laugh. You could argue that Zelensky does not need to do that, but he gives credit where credit is due to the Europeans, and he doesn't let a blatant lie about an ally slide. It's the type of moment that's beautiful and horrendous at the same time. Source: https://youtu.be/CSe0ntgfpq4?t=726

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[–] arc@lemm.ee 55 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

The stupid part is that Trump / Vance made themselves look like assholes. Zelensky was over to sign a deal and they threw him out for disagreeing with their dumb talking points. And far from making America "great", I expect that Canada, Europe, UK, Australia, Japan, South Korea etc has collectively decided that they need to reduce their dependence on America while these malignant narcissists are in charge.

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 20 points 23 hours ago

while these malignant narcissists are in charge.

Not just then. Even if a standard quo administration magically appeared right now, it has been proven the the US can turn into a fascist dictatorship on a dime. It's an extremely unstable country and should be kept at arm's length as long as it has the current system of government, no matter who's in charge.

[–] El_guapazo@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago (1 children)

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