this post was submitted on 12 Jan 2025
51 points (69.5% liked)

sh.itjust.works Main Community

7772 readers
93 users here now

Home of the sh.itjust.works instance.

Matrix

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Hello all, it is with a heavy heart that I must admit that I have become the drama that I always sought to avoid for this server. In this case, I could easily let sleeping dogs lie, but I'm somewhat exhausted and I don't really see the point of continuing here if there isn't some semblance of justice or rational thought to be found. More to the point, if Lemmy continues to display outright hostility and toxicity towards Americans at every turn, there is virtually no chance that this platform will ever develop beyond its current fringe status.

Although this server is based in Canada, I think we probably have a good number of Americans, and also despite recent events I think Canadians and Americans are fairly similar and have historically gotten along quite well with one another. I'm curious if a more diverse array of people will find any value in my actions, or if I'm truly just shouting into the wind. Strap in, because this is gonna be a long one.

This all started yesterday when @DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com made a post to AskLemmy. The original post read as follows.

I responded here. I had indeed noticed the constant derisive comments regarding Americans, although I didn't agree with the assumption that such comments were made by Russian/Chinese agents, and stated as much.

In my view, the responses to both OP and myself in that thread constitute clear evidence that at least one of our assumptions was true. In response to being called out on their hateful behavior, a number of users proceeded to double down, attempting to gaslight myself and OP and even suggesting that we were actually the Russian spies 🕵️‍♂️

Several hours later, one of our users decided to make a post "exposing" my behavior on !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com. Despite the fact that I hadn't utilized any moderator powers during this saga, he found my words to be offensive enough to post on said community. The post was eventually removed because it was unsuitable for the community, but not before I had replied in defense of myself. This was unfortunate, although understandable, because I felt that my response was something that Lemmy users could benefit from hearing.

I made this post because I want my fellow sh.itjust.works users to judge whether my actions and thoughts were reasonable, and I also want to expose this individual for what they are. My first option was !fediverselore@lemmy.ca, but it's not allowed to post drama that you're involved in. Also, I'm not really looking for the opinions of people who subscribe to drama communities on Lemmy, but rather the opinions of the average sh.itjust.works user. So here's the screenshot of the removed post.

Here's my reply.

It'll probably be easier reading if you go to my profile and/or his profile. Although the post was deleted, the comments should still appear in our profiles.

To summarize, this user bullied a brand new user into deleting their account, responding to an innocent, highly upvoted meme with this comment

He let’s me freely hang out at his nice place full of amenities so I can’t badmouth him

Lmfao, no, you can, you just like the taste of boot, and the benefits he gives you (that he only has because he exploits people like you) too much to.

Also, those last two points in the meme, as well as this being your only post on a new account strongly suggest that this is a troll, or at the very least, a really sad LARP, rather than observations made by someone who has ever spent any time at all with any actual rich people.

Two days later, he decided to call me out for mod abuse, despite the fact that I hadn't removed a single comment of his. Now he's decided to move over to lemmy.dbzer0.com, thank goodness.

But overall, aside from the specifics of this drama, I also want y'all to render judgment on whether or not Lemmy tends to exhibit a toxic attitude towards Americans. Notice that I said Americans, not America. I don't give a shit if people criticize and blatantly shit on America for the decisions that our government makes. But it's far too often that Lemmy users go beyond that line and decide to hurl personal insults towards Americans, often in completely non-political communities. I've always had thick skin and an open mind, so if I'm getting annoyed by it, my assumption is that most other Americans will find it intolerable. And although we don't need to be a majority American site by any means, the sheer numbers dictate that if Americans find this site intolerable, it will never achieve mainstream success.

And if I hear one more fucking person say that America only joined World War 2 after it was already over, or that we were cowards for not joining sooner, I swear to God I'ma start criticizing the metric system again 😂

EDIT:

Thanks for the replies, I'll try to be less of an arrogant prick going forward and in return I'd like people to reflect on my words from time to time. My primary motivation is making Lemmy better and having more diverse viewpoints, I wouldn't have called anyone out if I didn't feel that some of you are creating an environment that is self-destructive towards our goals in that regard. But maybe I'm overreacting, I would just ask you to put yourself in other people's shoes before making comments, and remember that we're all on the same team here, even the North American Scum

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] spinne@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'm an American. I'm not one of the "good" Americans, though, since I'm disabled, not Christian, not capitalist, and not white. I've spent my whole life getting shit on as a third-class citizen by Americans steeped in American culture and public school education that has, at every turn, preached American exceptionalism and pulling oneself up by their bootstraps while totally ignoring every benefit offered to them and withheld from people like me.

I think that you've been lucky so far, but now that you're being asked to sit the fuck down and listen while other people talk, you're taking it badly. After a lifetime of privilege, it's really easy to mistake being brought into line with everybody else's equality for oppression; please don't do that. It's a bad look and sets you up to feel bad unnecessarily.

There are like 8 billion people on this planet and you're one of about 330 million Americans. It's pretty reasonable that your perspective isn't the majority opinion, and that other people from other countries may also think their home is the best possible place to live and everyone else is an unlucky chump. Instead of dismissing all the critical comments as the kvetching of the jealous, unwashed masses outside your borders, it may help to look at them as nothing more than other people sharing their own viewpoints. Also, reading about events like Juneteenth, the MOVE bombing, the Kent State massacre, the Jackson State killings, and the Tulsa massacre may help you better understand why people from other places side eye Americans.

And seriously, the metric system is based on the physical properties of Earth and base 10 counting, not dead oppressors.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 41 points 2 days ago (1 children)

So, you want the opinion of an average sh.itjustworks user? Well, here it comes.

First and foremost, I think you should let it go and calm down. I know from personal experience, arguing with strangers on the internet can be exhausting and it can rile you up. It's not worth it.

And I've noticed an increase in inciteful troll posts on Lemmy in the past few days. The goal of those is to destroy the community by sowing division and hatred and these posts seem to come from both sides of the political spectrum. It doesn't really matter what political flavor the content seems to be because the purpose is simply to break things. Those are troll posts and the content is designed to provoke anger and hatred. We should be careful not to fall into this trap, as an international community.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] SoftTeeth@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

I'm American, we are rapidly turning into this century's Nazi Germany.

This is not a drill, pay attention to reality

[–] eggymachus@sh.itjust.works 40 points 2 days ago (3 children)

I have to say, the first paragraph of your reply does not give the impression that you want to argue in good faith…

I agree wholeheartedly. My assumption was that such behavior was simply a symptom of the relatively larger proportion of Europeans on this site, and their obvious jealousy and insecurity regarding Americans. I still believe that is the most likely explanation.

That sounds like you think all Europeans are jealous of Americans, and that they have good reason to. It comes off as troll-ish at the very least.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 12 points 1 day ago (24 children)

America isn't a true democracy. There's gerrymandering, and electoral college, and first past the post. But it used to have one little bit of democracy left at the federal level. And then America voted for Trump.

Kamala didn't even get the popular vote. Because Americans didn't think it was worth trying to win that like they did in 2016. The popular vote is the bragging rights to say the government doesn't represent the people, and Americans didn't want it.

So, Americans chose to be thought of by the world as fascists. Not all of them, but most of them didn't get up and choose otherwise. Few enough said no, that more were able to say yes. The default American image is a fascist. Nobody should be beholden to a default image, but that is the starting point. The mode average.

[–] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's actually reassuring to hear, coming from you.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You're welcome ^-^

load more comments (23 replies)
[–] 1984@lemmy.today 19 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I just see memes, no drama. Guess it depends on what you watch.

America is fun to make fun of, having hardly any vacations even, and thinking public Healthcare is communism. :) But I prefer them very much to Russia or China, that's for damn sure. They may love their money but they are usually not kidnapping and killing their own people.

If they want to work all their life for their money, ok. :) I dream of getting out of the hamster wheel, personally.

[–] otp@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (9 children)

I don't really care about this kind of drama here. I think people are allowed to have opinions. Attacks on people based on -isms are not cool, but let's be real... aren't jokes that target Americans punching up in some of the contexts you're referring to? And that's usually fair game.

As for jealousy towards Americans, I truly don't believe that's the case.

If there were underlying jealousy, it'd be more towards the country being relatively safe during WW2, having not been bombed or invaded the way Europe was, and having that massive advantage as it grew as a nation.

The success of the USA is generally because of its geographical location and the unfortunate economic conditions that hit Europe due to WW2. I don't think it's really because of anything special about American people or American culture.

I think people can be upset with Americans the way that people can be upset with trust fund kids who tell less fortunate people to pick themselves up by the bootstraps.

With that said... can't you make comments without revealing yourself as an admin? I feel like that's just going to trigger some people, lol

[–] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

The success of the USA is generally because of its geographical location and the unfortunate economic conditions that hit Europe due to WW2.

Do not forget slavery. This is huge to the success of the US.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] iii@mander.xyz 29 points 2 days ago (9 children)

I find people who's personality is "anti-X" or "fuck-Y" are usually not enjoyable to be around.

There's plenty of those on Lemmy, yes. But thankfully just a loud minority. Banning them (as a user), made Lemmy much more enjoyable.

[–] taladar@sh.itjust.works 1 points 23 hours ago

Honestly, people who are unequivocally pro-X or "why are you always critizing Y" are much worse overall, especially when X and Y are governments, companies or otherwise groups that the person isn't even really a part of.

load more comments (8 replies)
[–] WhatSay@slrpnk.net 16 points 1 day ago

Drama is inevitable when you connect enough people.

As an American, that has endless criticism for the countless wrongs in America, I haven't noticed much issue. I suppose if I was a patriot or maga fan, maybe I'd be more uncomfortable here.

I had seen a wave of divisive Russian posters in Reddit 6-7 years ago, usually with trump memes. I haven't noticed that here, probably because trolls get fed better elsewhere.

Thanks for what you do, often no good deeds happen without criticism.

[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

My advice is that we don’t always have to engage with with every opinion on the internet.

I especially consider this advice when an .ml or other far-left instance user posts tankie propaganda, rather than engage with it or make a meta post about it, just ignore it. Block the user and move on.

There are many many inherently negative and unhappy people online, not just here. These kind of people aren’t going to be swayed by random comments, they will just trap you in their negativity.

Everyone should empower themselves and use their individual moderation tools like block or mute, they may find they have a better experience. Not that we should block any one who disagrees with us, but there’s no reason to be brought down by someone who finds it their life mission to harass or bring down an entire group of people.

[–] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 14 points 1 day ago

My impression is that Lemmy has a sizable demographic of people whose communities have been banned from Reddit. I'm thinking hexbear especially, but a lot of .ml and others too. Several violently pro communism anti west groups. (I have a theory that they've been defusing to other instances too, but idk.) I think that's part of the reason why you get so much America bad rhetoric.

[–] verity_kindle@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I still prefer SJW to any other instance, because of threads just like this, afascinating discussion regardless of the foaming at the mouth replies about temporary political trends, like who's president. I've found much more of anti-religious bias at SJW over the years. I just assume that the poster or commenter is either very young or very old and move on with my day. The young will grow up and lose their suspicions by gaining life experience and meeting those practicing different faiths. However, I don't care about insults/bitterness towards fellow Americans.

[–] PuddleOfKittens@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I still prefer SJW to any other instance

o_O I hadn't noticed that acronym before now.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Not from sh.itjust.works

But I think that user (@DankOfAmerica@reddthat.com) just saw a bunch of posts from lemmygrad or hexbear and concluded that "Lemmy is Anti-American", which is not true at all. Lemmy users criticize the US, but (other than the aforementioned tankies) aren't hating on Americans. (At least, that's my experience.)

[–] Nougat@fedia.io 16 points 2 days ago

I'm somewhat on the outside of this, am aware of a bit but not following super close.

But the moment I read

Hello all, it is with a heavy heart that I must admit that I have become the drama that I always sought to avoid for this server.

-- Yeah, you're fine.

Simply being in a position of authority, even if you are not using that authority, will make you a target for rabble-rousers. On internet forums, the Venn diagram between "people who need to be moderated" and "people who will raise hell about mod actions" has a huge amount of overlap. There's kind of no avoiding catching hell as a forum mod.

[–] allo@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I think the "jealous europeans" part shouldn't have been said. advice: Don't say you or your country are better than others.

I literally joined sh.itjust.works because aggressive people are my weakness. If I post something with good energy and someone attacks, I'm not a brawl enjoyer; I go straight to kill mode. I considered Canadians a peaceful species, so I made an account here.

In my own realms it's the aggressive people who attack others that I remove. I do not want my new users interacting with them, old users having to interact with them, them to appear to be the face and persontype of my place... I also rule with an iron fist tho. I value diverse ideologies and viewpoints but do not tolerate aggression.

Maybe you are not assertive enough in preventing bullying among your flock and one just reached up and bit you. A clear warning first and to make the bullied person feel they are not in the wrong, then send the bully to another instance if they continue.

Reminds me of a post where someone was being viciously attacked for innocently sharing their view.

I actually felt I had to step in and reassure the poster they were ok after and it seemed to help.

I don't know how people like that are allowed to roam the varying areas. Just make them reroll far away.

Seems like one of that type of person bit you and you lashed back and in so doing "overly defended" america in saying others are jealous; and then you got the downvotes.

I don't see the hate of Americans issue as much as it being acceptable to viciously attack people if not personally sharing their viewpoint; and that shouldn't actually be acceptable behavior. It should be highly looked down on and removed. Being civil isn't just words; it's the energy one conveys toward others.

edit: also people joining or initially starting in just any instance and eventually rerolling to one more fitting them is a natural thing which happened here.

[–] spankinspinach@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I appreciated your comment, but chuckled at the idea of Canadians as a peaceful species. We have our fair share of ruthlessness, from indigenous mistreatment 🤫 to shutting down our capital during the pandemic to our behaviour during WWI being a cause for some of the Geneva conventions 😅 we're generally a peace loving group, but we don't eff around if pushed haha

For the record I feel the need to point out I do NOT endorse our country's indigenous mistreatment, it is in fact one of the saddest parts of being Canadian.

Edit - phrasing

[–] Libb@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I had indeed noticed the constant derisive comments regarding Americans,

May I humbly object that without numbers to confirm the mentioned anti-American bias (I have no idea on the question myself, and I have no desire to start such a study either) but without any data of how many comments have been posted, how many have been analyzed, and where they were posted, what % of those were blatantly anti-US and even how is defined that 'anti-americanism'—and I don't mean a few selected examples, I mean real stats—all of this is nothing but personal opinions that may indeed be correct, but can also be completely not correct.

It not only depends one's own sensibility it also depends where one is looking at and what they're looking for

I mean, would I read content from say an instance like hexbear I'm pretty sure I would find a lot more anti-US comments (but I would also find a lot more anti-anything, and overall braindead-shit) but if I was making the odd decision to eat shit myself, I would not complain it taste like, well, shit.

But maybe I'm just another of those anti-Americans? Maybe not.

Edit: typos and clarifications.

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›