this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 32 points 6 days ago

Shock.

Surprise.

For those who don't know, Turkey hates the Kurdish people. Iraq and Iran are too powerful for them to go after the Kurds very well there. The SDF along the northern border of Syria is Kurdish and is unprotected. Expect no quarter by either side. The Turks will also kill civilians if they get into population centers. This enmity runs to the Ottoman Empire who also mistreated the Kurds in favor of the Turks. When Ataturk turned to focus on the Kurds after the Armenian Genocide the Kurds took up arms rather than be next.

The SDF previously relied on the stalemate of the war to not be bothered by NATO. But with that over and Trump returning (who gave the Turks the greenlight to occupy sections of Syria last time) it's obviously time for the Turks to go after the Kurds again. Because God forbid the Kurds actually get self determination and peace.

[–] febra@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago (1 children)

The kurds have been one of the most betrayed people by the West. They were one of the only ones to put themselves directly in front of the ISIS hordes. Men and women fought and lost their lives to stop ISIS from spreading their reign of terror even further. The West promised in turn to help them gain their territorial autonomy. After defeating ISIS the Americans then pulled out of all of their promises to the Kurds, abandoning them, and are now actively supporting Turkey in destroying the kurdish autonomous region. What an utterly disgusting move on their part, and surely telling for all the movements looking to collaborate with them in the future.

[–] ours@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

And that's after being abandoned after fighting Saddam Hussein as well.

[–] Roflmasterbigpimp@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Wait. I thought Turkey was happy about so many Syrian refugees leaving. And now they're following them to bring more war? WTF?

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 19 points 6 days ago

The Turks can always make room for killing more Kurds.

[–] Juigi@lemm.ee 8 points 6 days ago

War mongering Turkey what a shock

[–] ZombieMantis@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago

Oh, for fuck's sake-

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 6 days ago

Fash gonna fash.

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago

One of the reasons I've been boycotting imports from Türkiye for years.

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 46 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

A full-scale invasion of Syria by Turkey, without any political adjustments to the situation, would mean Turkish troops seizing land currently co-held (together with the AANES / SDF) by American troops. Without coordination, Turkish drone and artillery strikes would land near US troops, which would call in reinforcements to remove the drones and artillery.

Needless to say, one NATO ally going at territory held by another is a pretty bad idea.

So, in some parts of Syria, proceeding with their plan requires a US president - and most likely not Biden - to give them the green light and withdraw US special forces from SDF land. Basically, it requires the US to screw its allies in the fight against the Islamic State. Which would not be out of character for Trump, since Kurds cannot "pay him for protection". The protection was based on principles (the Autonomous Administration of North-Eastern Syria was the only player in the region that tried sticking to democracy and human rights) and a common enemy (ISIS).

I hope all of this doesn't happen, but if I were the Kurds, I'd be keeping drone batteries charged and knocking on every diplomatic door for assistance.

In case of things hitting the fan, it might be useful to remember a link to the Kurdistan Red Crescent - Heyva Sor a Kurdistanê. (They can't supply drone batteries, but deliver medical and humanitarian aid to the region.)

Tbh this is precisely how I expect things to play out over the next couple months. And I fucking hate it.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 2 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Biden hasn't proved to be an ally either. He might not support Turkey but he isn't going to allow US troops to return fire. It will be like the UN Outposts Israel just goes around.

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

As far as I know, procedures for returning fire don't require calling the president. There already was an incident about a week ago - they just shot down the drone that threatened them.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago

Basic stuff like that they can do. But stray artillery rounds aren't going to get a response. Anything more than their rifle or short range anti air requires permission from higher up. And even those are on a short leash because the local commander will be under orders to hold fire unless they're actually attacked.

On the other side there will be an American officer telling the Turks exactly where American troops are and acting as the first line of deconfliction if there are any mistakes. Turkey will listen to that officer because of the balance of power in the US-Turkey relationship and the knowledge that the US is capable of disabling their entire military overnight.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org -1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Basically, it requires the US to screw its allies in the fight against the Islamic State. Which would not be out of character for Trump, since Kurds cannot “pay him for protection”. The protection was based on principles (the Autonomous Administration of North-Eastern Syria was the only player in the region that tried sticking to democracy and human rights) and a common enemy (ISIS).

The US using and abandoning Kurdish people is a repeated pattern long since before Trump. Heck, the US helped Saddam Hussein massacre thousands of Kurdish people in Iraq in the deadliest nerve gas attack in recorded history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_massacre
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

Also the DAANES you mention as "trying to stick to democracy and human rights" runs torture camps and mass executions and the US helps funnel new people into them.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/04/syria-mass-death-torture-and-other-violations-against-people-detained-in-aftermath-of-islamic-state-defeat-new-report/

[–] perestroika@lemm.ee 3 points 6 days ago

Thanks for pointing that out.

Until this report, it was my impression that they tried sticking to democracy and human rights - but had a problem with recruiting underage people, which they admitted and dealt with.

This report is new to me, so I think it might be new to others - I recommend it.

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[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 41 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Watch the US abandon them too, after basically using them to squash ISIS. A concern though, is Turkey won’t want to hold territory, so it’ll end up creating the same power vacuum that spawned ISIS after it drives the Kurds out. A better solution would be for the US to just broker a deal between all parties.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 points 6 days ago

Turkey would love to expand their borders. They already exist on a war footing because they insist on treating domestic Kurds like Native Americans were treated and sending military expeditions into northern Iraq and Syria. The only difference would be staying there.

[–] BlesthThySoul@lemy.lol 3 points 6 days ago

Turkey is performing this act for the sake of the historical three cities which are present in Syria to be included in their current map.

Erdogan himself gave such a blaoted nationalistic speech after the fall of Assad.

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