this post was submitted on 21 Dec 2023
812 points (95.1% liked)

World News

39102 readers
2247 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News !news@lemmy.world

Politics !politics@lemmy.world

World Politics !globalpolitics@lemmy.world


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Note:

I swapped the original article at the request of a mod to from a source deemed more reliable, but to avoid confusion when reading the comment section prior to this edit, here is the link to the original article. I chose the Relief Web source listed by some who commented. Cheers!

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] UsedAndDenied@lemmy.today -4 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

That's eleven men.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/un-human-rights-office-opt-unlawful-killings-gaza-city

This is bad and I don't want to justify or defend it. But this does not indicate mass executions of civilians as policy. It could well be a platoon leader who overstepped authority.

As the report states, the UN is calling for a formal investigation. As well they should.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What is the definition of a mass execution or massacre to you?

[–] UsedAndDenied@lemmy.today -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

When I responded, the submission went to the World Socialist Web Site. I linked above to the actual report. If you read the actual report, you see that eleven civilians were murdered. And that's terrible. The report rightly calls for an investigation.

You ask, what is a mass execution or massacre? Well, what happened here is unlawful killings. It's a massacre. But my point was that an investigation was needed to determine if these killings were the result of Israeli policy or an event on the ground out of the hands of actual policymakers. Which would look something a whole lot more like the Katyn Massacre, where Soviet troops murdered 22,000 people in Poland during WWII.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

This doesn't diminish those eleven lives. But that's the difference between state policy and a military commander gone rogue.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

When I responded, the submission went to the World Socialist Web Site. I linked above to the actual report. If you read the actual report, you see that eleven civilians were murdered. And that's terrible. The report rightly calls for an investigation.

Yeah, no need to explain that, it was well understood the first time.

This doesn't diminish those eleven lives. But that's the difference between state policy and a military commander gone rogue.

I don't know if we can assume that anymore. The whole IDF is the former. Many Palestinians aside from those died in custody in circumstances the IDF wants to investigate, and then these 11, and in the upcoming months we will hear about a lot more.

You ask, what is a mass execution or massacre?

You didn't answer the question. Your point was clear from the first comment I responded to. There was no need for over explaining it all.

I suggest you Google mass killing and massacre and summary executions. "Mass" doesn't imply thousands of people necessarily.

[–] UsedAndDenied@lemmy.today 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I'm not debating your point on mass executions. Even or 22,000. They're bad.

But if you claim these were murdered as policy set by top leadership, you need evidence. Not speculation.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The evidence is the collection of IDF crimes committed every day. Sorry the list is too long to put in one post. I suggest you use Google.

[–] UsedAndDenied@lemmy.today 0 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

No. That is not relevant to this crime. At best, it is circumstantial.

What is needed are documents from official sources. Witness testimony from within the high command attesting to orchestration of this crime. Actual specifics.

You are on a witch hunt.

[–] snek@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I don't think any of what you are saying here is a logical conclusion to "11 men"

[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Yes, just a completely consistent series of platoon leaders who systemically "overstep authority". These are fully and totally autonomous actions... that are culturally mandated. Why everyone is so upsets?

[–] snek@lemmy.world 1 points 11 months ago

I assume some people think MASS KILLING and EXECUTION are just shocking words being used, when instead they just describe the ugly reality.