this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2025
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Exactly. People need to take in the full context. Here is the full chapter, with the quote in the final paragraph, which... Makes the quote even worse?
Instructions on Worship
2 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time. 7 And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
8 Therefore I want the men everywhere to pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or disputing. 9 I also want the women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, adorning themselves, not with elaborate hairstyles or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, 10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God.
11 A woman[a] should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women[c] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
There is actually a lot of historical context missing and — like most things Biblical — this has been terribly mistranslated and deeply abused and twisted by patriarchal leaders to suit their own political ambitions.
Ephesus was home to the cult of Artemis/Diana, and the Temple of Artemis which was one of the Seven Wonders of the ancient world. The cult was matriarchal, Artemis being the goddess of girls and fertility, natural forces and archery, among other things. Her priestesses spoke with the authority and voice of their goddess, who was strong, fierce, and independent and the culture developed around this for hundreds of years.
The entire letter is to a specific group of people regarding specific cultural conflicts. What the letter is saying is that women who are converting must not be allowed use their sex as an excuse to suppress or dominate male teachers. Instead, they need to learn this new religion respectfully from the existing teachers, who are men, rather than taking over by force as the culture would have historically promoted as their Ephesian/Artemisian birthright. Flaunting wealth and social status is also frowned upon. And while the sexist “women made the mistake” line is there and is intentional, the call back to being “saved by childbearing” is meant to extend a familiar bridge for Artemis cultists. If it’s not immediately obvious why, then do you remember what Artemis was goddess of?
It's a real shame that pretty much no place bothers with putting historical context to the bible when teaching about it. Would've been great if christian churches did that
Ther original is in Greek. There is no mistranslation.
Paul says, "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[b] she must be quiet." If it was about heretics, it would have said so. If it was about Timothy's church only, he would have said so.
Paul said "I" don't permit it. He didn't say "You" shouldn't permit it. That means the Christian church, even without the cult of Artemis, should not permit women to teach or have authority over men.
excellent, someone who knows :-)
That's a historical text interpretation of the Bible, which is legit to me. However I'd say only a minority of practicing Christians regard it that way. With the rest, you have more fundamentalist views of the Bible as the literal word of God and the flexible view of it as metaogorical teachings inspired by God. Therefore these views treat the Bible specifically as authoritative, timeless, and divine, elevating it above a mere human document and transcendent of historical context. Timothy 3:17 seems to reflect the common idea that "the Bible is the only book you need".
I do agree that one can make a historical argument for an interpretation of scripture, and maybe even do so in a way that reifies one's personal relationship with God. However it doesn't engage with the Bible the way most Christians do and therefore is not likely to be all that persuasive.
I completely agree.
Religion - and all dogmatism - exists solely as a tool for the powerful to subjugate and oppress others. This has been the case for all of recorded human history. Christianity is no exception.
I won’t take a fantastical mythological approach to any ancient document, even if that’s what modern acolytes are doing. I won’t pretend to care about their fan fiction, but I will casually correct factual mistakes and move on. Why? Because it’s therapeutic. I was raised in an abusive evangelical home, and besides that abuse, because my existence was “sinful”, the insistence on reading “The Bible” and learning that it doesn’t actually say any of the things I was told it did was formative. The people who demanded I read it clearly hadn’t themselves, and never dug deeper than the english words — which they insisted were “God-inspired.” Yes, the english ones. Which english ones? All of them. And whatever you wanted to extrapolate from them, which meant all your hate and torture and mental, physical, and emotional abuse were also the literal words of god. Fuck that. Fuck those people.
You are right that nothing can change a cultists mind. They are in a cult of millions and millions. Their own holy book disagrees with all their dogmas, their speech, their actions, their teachings, but pointing it out will never change their minds. I’ll do it, anyway, because I need to. Liars should be exposed, even the liars themselves won’t recant.