this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
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[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 194 points 2 days ago (72 children)

There is a lot about this that is nuts, but one thing that really jumps out at me.

It seems like Netanyahu is planning an October surprise to shank Harris. And it seems like he is doing it in broad daylight. It certainly seems like a massive offensive strike on Iran one or two weeks before the election is a straightforward way to throw a close election to Trump.

But with this I have to ask: are Biden and Harris assisting with a plan that is clearly intended to cost Harris the election?

I want to say that they surely must've told Israel not to launch anything before election day. But based in their actions so far, it doesn't seem like they're imposing a "no election interference against us personally" requirement as a condition of their assistance.

I guess we'll see.

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (10 children)

It feels like they are totally beholden to Israel.

If they push back hard, they alienate swing voters who like Israel from the old days, aka apocalypse.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 41 points 2 days ago (5 children)

This is actually a persistent myth: there is no evidence that they are beholden to a constituency that would punish them for any actions that curtail Israel.

Israel's actions are wildly unpopular across the electorate. They are unpopular with nearly all Democrats as well as most independents and a very large plurally of Republicans. I have seen numerous polls that show that there is a very significant number of voters that Harris is losing over this, and I have seen absolutely nothing to indicate that there is any measurable cost to her speaking out against Israel at all. Which is really sad. Because it means that this is absolutely a moral choice on her part. This is not an electoral choice at all.

https://truthout.org/articles/poll-endorsing-israel-arms-embargo-would-boost-harriss-support-to-49-percent/

[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

I am not religious so I don’t know the details but I have a friend who is very religious and refuses to vote for Trump again. He hates Harris but won’t give me a reason. When I have brought up the Israel stuff he immediately jumps to a very, holy land, must support and defend at any cost mentality. He would never vote Democrat but it makes me wonder how pervasive this weird fairy tale attachment exists throughout the voting base.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's a good question. Is your friend an evangelical Christian? A lot of people don't know this, but the actual biggest plurality of political Zionists in the US are not Jews, but Evangelical Christians who support Israel because they believe it is a chess piece in bringing about the end of the world (which is a good thing in their dogma).

They also happen to often like the idea of ethnofascism, which is a very sad state of affairs.

[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

He is evangelical Christian yes. I don’t have much exposure to religion. I have gone to his church a couple times when he has asked me to in the decade or so we’ve been friends. I’m in my forties. I’ve never felt pressured but I also keep my religion or lack of to myself. I just never really understood the position on Israel and it really stuck out to me. Even though he will freely admit how crazy and hateful things are out of the MAGA crowd, I get the feeling anytime the topic gets close to coming up with me he fends it off by essentially communicating to me that he has unwavering and unquestioned support of Israel and I haven’t been willing to push it since he is otherwise a great person in my life that has helped me through a number of difficulties.

[–] andrewrgross@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's a shame. For what it's worth, his position isn't a mystery to me. I believe that he's been convinced by his church that unquestioningly supporting Israel's expansionary goals, regardless of any other moral question is an absolute necessity for anyone who truly loves Jesus and believes strongly in his rebirth and in the promise of everlasting life in heaven.

It is -- with all due respect -- as crazy as anything you'd hear in a Texas cult bunker. But I'm guessing that it's real as a wildfire to your friend. It makes me sad to think about.

[–] Waraugh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 1 day ago

I appreciate the insight and time you have taken to respond. Also your understanding. I have a really difficult time processing the situation. It does feel very cult like and matter of fact. I don’t understand how someone that seems so good can know something so bad is going on, who is so obviously able to recognize the bad in other related areas, and blindly vehemently support them unquestionably. He’s intelligent and successful…yet so lost, the most caring and compassionate person I know; it can’t be ok.

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